Author Topic: washed rind and geo  (Read 2368 times)

Offline clherestian

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Default personal text
washed rind and geo
« on: October 28, 2009, 08:25:30 AM »
I recently cut a 45 day old washed rind cheese based on P. Dixon's Tallegio recipe. The paste of the cheese was nearly perfect, but the rind was all wrong. To develop the rind, I inoculated the milk with geo 13 and b. linens. I also washed with a 3% brine dosed with the same

The geo developed but the b. linens didn't do much. In fact, the geo developed too much, and the cheese developed a slight case of slip skin. The thing that I don't understand is how to prevent the geo from taking over and creating a slip skin. The only way I know to stop the slip skin is to make sure the cheese is not too moist when aging, but that is what a washed rind needs.

Any ideas?


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline joyofcheese

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Posts: 27
  • Cheeses: 2
  • joyofcheesemaking.com
    • The Joy of Home Cheesemaking
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 06:54:04 PM »
I am working with a two week old Meunster that I made during my first podcast. I started my cheese before taking an intense two day course last week at OSU on cheesemaking. Here is what I learned regarding b.linens that may be helpful.

B. linens like low acid (high pH), high salt and oxygen. Geo. Candidum also likes oxygen, but does not like high salt. It is Geo. Candidum's job to lower the acid (raise the pH) of the surface of the cheese so the B. linens can grow. I learned in the OSU class that you usually add Geo. to the cheese milk, and wash the rind with a low (4%) salt solution for the first few days. The Geo. grows and lowers the acid of the surface. Then you switch to a high salt solutoin (10%) to stop the Geo growth and encourage the b.linens to grow. You usually add b.linens to the wash, not to the cheesemilk, since it needs oxygen to grow and it won't get that inside the cheese.

Your slip skin is probably from the Geo growing too much. It produces proteolytic (protein digesting) enzymes that liquefies the cheese just under the skin if let go too long.

I worked out that 5 tsp of kosher salt in 1 cup of water is about a 10% solution. I added some b.linens to that wash and am washing my muenster with that twice over 3 days. Then I will probably switch to just wine with the same amount of salt in it. I have two very small orange colonies of b.linens on the surface of one of my muensters right now (from milk innoculated cultures, I assume), and I hope that this wash will get more to show up 10 days after I started washing with b.linens.

Hope this helps.

Offline clherestian

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Default personal text
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 08:07:30 PM »
Sputicus, that is helpful, particularly that bit about switching to a higher salt content brine.

I know that my problem is the geo growing too much and liquefying the cheese, ext but I wasn't sure how to address it. Next time, I will try your suggestion of switching to a 10% solution after a few days.

After allowing my cheese to dry a little, then tasting and smelling it, my conclusion is that b linens did grow, but they were yellow instead of orange.


Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 198
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 08:15:23 PM »
How often did you wash the rind after inoculating with b linens? Also, what temp? If the yeast growth is too aggressive, it needs to be washed away physically so the b linens can take over and eat it. Upping the salt to 10% is another way of doing it, like sputicus said.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 08:41:15 PM »
I found the details on most prcedures lacking when it comes to using b. Linens. I hope to try that process again this weekend. My son want more Muenster and I think I have enough B.linens left to do it again.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline clherestian

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Default personal text
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 04:56:11 PM »
linux -

I washed every other day for 2 weeks then every three days. It was probably too cold - 48%.

I'm not sure how I would physically wash away the geo when it gets too thick. Since the cheese is wet, would I use a wet rag to rub the cheese?

I do have one question, when I wash the cheese, how wet do I want it to be? I've been dunking  a rag in the brine and the rubbing the cheese with the rag. The result is a very wet cheese, not just a damp one.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 11:26:27 AM »
Gents

Great info on the B linens. But I thought it was Penicillum candidum (thick fluffy white mold) that if left to over ripen can result in slip skin (also called toad skin), and that Geotrichum candidum which if on it's own will result in a very thin white mold?

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 198
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 12:02:31 PM »
John, Geo comes in all sorts of varieties, ranging from a thin yeast that leaves a residue to a full-on mold.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline joyofcheese

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Posts: 27
  • Cheeses: 2
  • joyofcheesemaking.com
    • The Joy of Home Cheesemaking
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 01:37:14 PM »
I thought it was the Geo. Candidum based on your previous post here and the link in that post to Captain Caprine's post. I am still new at all these Latin names, so I may have it wrong. They did mention in the OSU class that slip skin is from proteolytic enzymes, so I am pretty sure that is right.

Offline FRANCOIS

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
  • Cheeses: 71
  • Default personal text
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 03:47:36 PM »
I have never seen p. cad., when used alone, cause slip skin.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline clherestian

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Posts: 117
  • Cheeses: 4
  • Default personal text
Re: washed rind and geo
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 09:07:45 AM »
I've had the slip skin problem enough times that I know for a fact it is caused by misuse of geo.