Author Topic: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute  (Read 14309 times)

Offline Boofer

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 07:44:42 PM »
Well, I needed some so I bought the 1 pound also.

But after all the superbright minds doing the preceding calculations, I'm afraid I've lost my way.  ???

  • What concentration of CACL2 do I need?
  • Presuming I want a 30% solution, what is the ratio I'm looking at?

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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 08:02:37 PM »
What does it all add up to, though??

I went off of the 1 Tbsp. for 4 gallons method I found somewhere... but I didn't stop to think that might be solution and not dry weight CaCl2.  I've been using dry pellets of the stuff.  However, I can't imagine 1 Tbsp. in 4 gallons is over doing it.
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 08:05:34 PM »
After doing a little more research, I found an entry by "the_stain" which I've attached.

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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 08:08:44 PM »
And then how much do you add to a gallon?  How many tsp. or Tbsp. of 30% solution?

Oh good god.  I haven't tried my CaCl2 cheeses yet.  First one is edible in a week.
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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2009, 08:25:52 PM »
Boofer, that seems right. It's total solid in the total volume of liquid, as John said.

Baby Chee, a tablespoon is somewhere around 15 grams. You should have been adding up to ~3 grams of the dry granules for 4 gallons, which is a little over half a teaspoon. That would be for .02%. For a .01% you need to add a quarter teaspoon of the dry per 4 gallons.

If you're using 30% solution, you should have been adding about 3.3x the volume as the dry granules. So for 4 gallons milk at a final target of .01% CaCl2, using 30% solution, you need to add almost exactly a teaspoon.
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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2009, 08:29:38 PM »
Crap... I did three times the amount.

You think any ill effects in taste will occur?  I'm trying not to open a cheese and see: I've made 5 that way.
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Offline John (CH)

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 08:44:13 PM »
linuxboy, sounds good, I like your last part, so I need 0.75 gram per 1 US gallon, can I just dilute and add add that rate? Assume it dissolves fast and would be easier for me than pre-mixing a solution.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 08:50:21 PM »
John, that seems OK if you want to go for the .02% max. I remember reading somewhere, maybe it was American Farmstead Cheese, that .02% was excessive for pasteurized milk, and .01% or maybe .015% was better.

One advantage of the solution I see is that if your scale is off and you add too much or too little, the mistake is magnified when using the concentrated powder, whereas it's not as bad for a diluted solution.
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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 08:53:12 PM »
Well, I might as well try one of those cheeses.
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Offline John (CH)

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 09:25:17 PM »
linuxboy, sorry, I misread your post, that is for max 0.02%, I'll go with half that.

That is when I start using my 1 lb of dry CaCl2 . . . but it's going to take me a year just to use up my bottle from DairyConnection.com!!!


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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2009, 09:56:56 PM »
Damn.  I opened one gouda: 4 weeks old tomorrow.

Fine texture.
Tastes chalky.

I'd have to assume it was the overdose of CaCl2.
A waste.  I'll let the other 4 cheeses mature.

Rushed out to the brewing area, got a pyrex flask, a stopper, a glass stir rod, scale, and CaCl2.
And measured out a 30% solution.  500grams water, 150grams CaCl2.  Mixed.

BEWARE, PEOPLE!

This stuff creates a very powerful chemical reaction.  My 500 ml flask was burning hot!  Too hot to touch. I'm letting it cool down.

Sad that I didn't realize this yesterday before my two latest cheeses.  That'll teach me to go off of stray recipes I found on the internet instead of quantifying how the stuff is used.  My sodium chloride cheeses were all excellent, though.  Well.... now I know.
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Offline Ben

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2009, 12:46:51 AM »
So I have been reading this with interest and have come to one conclusion.  I am not sure we know even what to debate.  For all we know the 30% is a carry over from a solution of cacl2 that some guy bought and mixed 30% of it with water. 

I called my brother who is a chemist and when I asked him how to make a 30% solution of cacl2 he was reluctant to even speculate how to do it.  Apparently chemists refer to a solution as a percentage most often using Molar concentration (hope I got that right).  what this means is if you could actually count the molecules in a solution 30% of them would be cacl2.  You get there by using the molecular weight of the molecule of each part of the solution and then knowing how much mass that takes up you can get to 30% of something relative to something else and have the total solution be a specific volume.  I believe this is what is discussed by both linuxboy and the_stain (truth be told I only understood half of what they said, makes me feel inferior).

OK, we can understand that, but here is the problem, we are assuming that this is what is meant by 30% and I am not sure it is.  I have contacted one online retailer and that solution would not work with the Molar concentration idea.  I have sent an email to leeners (since i think we have established that that is who dairy connection gets theirs from) and I will see what they say.

Long story short, Let's find out what they use and use it since we know it works.  We can call it a 54.32% solution and it would have as much meaning I think.  At the end of the day it won't matter so long as it is the same as we get when we buy from them.

Does this make sense to anyone elso or have I just thoroughly confused myself beyond repair?

Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2009, 06:13:18 AM »
The molecular mass of water is 18 (approximately) while CaCl2 is around 110.  Wouldn't that make a 30% solution to be 2 parts CaCl2 and 1 part water?  I can guarantee that isn't right.  Let's see what you find out from these companies.  The 30% is probably metric weight.
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2009, 09:58:38 AM »
Amazing...this discussion brings the following image to mind:



Here's yet another supporting link:
http://home.att.net/~jeffrey.d.mathias/guide/percent.htm

My original 1 ounce bottle of CACL2 from Leeners is empty, but I have come to realize that I may need to add CACL2 to my brine if I don't use whey-brine. With that in mind, I need to make a larger bottle of 30% CACL2 solution. The link above supports the earlier reference that "the_stain" mentioned. I'll use that as my guide.

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Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Calcium Chloride - Granular, How Dilute
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2009, 12:17:41 PM »
Tapping out a 4/4 beat on a bored horse?

So by that site, it definitely is the weight of the dry chemical vs. weight of water, which is what stain was doing, and which I did last night.  You guys buying POUNDS of CaCl2 are going to have a lifetime supply.  I made over a pint last night, which will last me for years and years and years.  I only needed 150 grams of the stuff.
“For centuries, people thought the moon was made of green cheese. Then the astronauts found that the moon is really a big hard rock. That's what happens to cheese when you leave it out.”