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Author Topic: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions  (Read 8291 times)

Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« on: November 18, 2009, 05:06:25 AM »
I read each and every threat here that mentions Titratable Acidity.

I bought this acid meter kit from cheesemaking.com but the instructions does not match with what I am reading in books. So I, decided to write a more accurate instructions to share here but that confused me even more. I am not a dairy scientist not even close but I want to understand this measurement process.

Kit comes with N1 (normality 1 or N0.1 or N1/10) Sodium Hydroxide and Phenophthalein and couple test tubes. If the NaOH is N1 this should measure the titratable acidity in Therner degree and the sample milk to be used should be 9ml but the web site says use 10ml sample milk with 5 drops of phenolphthalein where as books says only 3 drop.

I am attaching the paper I am writing. Please help me to develop this paper so that we can share it here.
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Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 01:24:30 AM »
Come on people, Linuxboy, Sailor, Debie  where are you guys?
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linuxboy

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 01:29:36 AM »
Gurkan, I'm kind of in the middle of 6 projects right now, and have to take care of settling in two goats I'm getting this weekend. I'll try to revise your draft the week after next. You have some good info there already. TA is not that hard.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:00:34 AM by linuxboy »
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Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 01:40:21 AM »
Oh Thanks God and Linuxboy. For a moment I thought, I was talking to myself.

Thanks very much, Hope you settle those goats easily and nail the 6 projects you have. Gee, I tought my workload was tough.

good luck Linuxboy
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 04:48:59 AM »
Sorry hon I was pretty busy tonight myself. I'd use the instruction that came with the kit 1st and clear up anything you don't understand with Linus links.
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Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 03:06:03 AM »
Instructions that came with the kit does not match with cheesemaking.com published info. Books are good but not detailed. I wrote the doco with the help of a Turkish scientist but he is not reachable at the moment. I only need things to be straightened a bit in my doco.

I hope Linuxboy will be available soon.
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 03:35:45 AM »
Sometimes products are changed but websites are not. Use the instruction that came with the kit - the are from the manufacturer and should be more reliable.
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linuxboy

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 02:26:27 AM »
Gurkan, I rewrote your doc. Please use this version as it is more correct and complete than the original post. To briefly answer your questions:

- It doesn't matter if you use 3 or 5 drops of indicator. Doesn't influence the measurement.
- The alcohol content in the indicator doesn't matter. Same thing, doesn't affect measurement.
- You didn't ask this question, but in your post you said with 1 N NaOH, the measurement is in Therner. This is not necessarily true. You can measure in whatever way you want, convert among the units, or dilute the 1 N NaOH to whatever you want, or make it stronger.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, please post and I'll try to answer them.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 08:32:24 PM by linuxboy »
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linuxboy

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 03:00:17 AM »
I just glanced through the New England link

http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/70.html

The instructions are wrong. Using .1 N NaOH, the sample size should be 9 grams, not 10 ml if you want to use the shortcut method without doing math. They also list that the life span of NaOH solution is one year. This is wrong, the lifespan of NaOH in solution contained by a nonreactive vessel sealed and stored in a cool, dark place is pretty much forever. The common theoretical loss is by absorption of CO2, but if its sealed and dispensed from a dropper, this shouldn't be material.

[edit] They seem to have fixed the measurement oversight by correcting to 9 ml when checked in 6/2012. NaOH solution lifespan still not technically accurate, and no mention of storage conditions.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 12:54:56 PM by linuxboy »
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 03:03:23 AM »
You are da man!  ^-^
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Offline Gürkan Yeniçeri

  • The one who masters temperature and humidity can make any cheese.
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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 10:32:33 PM »
Thanks Linuxboy,

I new they were wrong from the moment I see it. I am glad that we have a person like you who knows his thing.

I will be testing my kit this weekend just to get an understanding of the measurement process.

How did you go with the goats? Have they settled and started milking?
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linuxboy

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 10:41:59 PM »
The new goats are funny... they settled in OK, but we've had cold temperatures lately. So, I put out a large dog house for them, figuring they'd want some extra warmth and shelter. They sort of looked at it, then looked at me like I was crazy, and that the weather outside is fine. It was about 10 F last night.  They've never slept there yet.

These are young doelings for a new minitature goat genetic line I'm developing; I haven't even bred them yet.
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 02:41:15 AM »
So you are a breeder also. Impressive!
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wharris

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2009, 07:57:37 PM »
I am still reading this document.
One thing I might add is that I measure TA for my wine all the time.
I use a .2N NaOH solution.

Also, I do not use phenophalin as an end-point indicator. 
If find that it is much more accurrate to measure the amount of NaOH required to reach the end-point to the titration as measured by pH.

My endpoint is pH 8.2

I have attatched some notes that got from a wine forum.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 12:37:07 AM by Wayne Harris »
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linuxboy

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Re: Titratable Acidity Measurement Kit and instructions
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 09:22:09 PM »
Good points, Wayne. I did include a brief section on using a pH meter instead for anyone interested.

For anyone reading Wayne's doc, please keep in mind that the formula in his doc for calculating acid in grams/L is for tartaric acid (O−OC-CH(OH)-CH(OH)-COO−), not lactic (CH3CH(OH)COO−), hence the different molecular weights of g/mole.
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