Author Topic: Gouda...not there yet  (Read 2359 times)

Offline BauerHaus

  • Husband and Wife Cheese Team
  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Alameda (The Island City in SF Bay) California
  • Posts: 34
  • Cheeses: 1
  • Apartment House Cheddar
Gouda...not there yet
« on: November 28, 2009, 12:10:32 PM »
What am I missing?
My Gouda has no bounce, it also has tangyness and just a bit to creamy to be Gouda.
Help needed.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 01:07:26 PM »
Are you able to post recipe and method, it would be easier then to trouble shoot for you.

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 01:23:05 PM »
Yes indeed a procedure and more details like how old is the cheese, how was it ripened. When you say tangy is it a sour tang? It looks very dry and crumbly in the photo.

Offline BauerHaus

  • Husband and Wife Cheese Team
  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Alameda (The Island City in SF Bay) California
  • Posts: 34
  • Cheeses: 1
  • Apartment House Cheddar
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 01:44:20 PM »
Sorry for the brief question, my batteries died on my wireless keyboard...

Used  Margeret Morris recipe
Whole organic Homogenized milk, not Ultra
Milk in bath to 84 deg
add 1/2 tsp. Meso III
30 min ripe
add CaCl
add 3/4 tsp rennet
set 70 minutes
cut 1/2" curds
add 176deg H20 for 92.5 deg milk
stir
remove 1/3 whey
add 111deg H2O for 100deg milk
stir
let stand
laddle  to cheese cloth in mold
Pressed in 7" mold
20 mins at approx 10lbs direct pressure
20 mins at 20lbs
12 hrs at 50 lbs

Heavy brine 4 hours

Air dry for 4 days
Waxed
Age since Sept 19,  8-9wks
Aged in converted wine cooler, 54deg not high moisture

Offline BauerHaus

  • Husband and Wife Cheese Team
  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Alameda (The Island City in SF Bay) California
  • Posts: 34
  • Cheeses: 1
  • Apartment House Cheddar
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 01:48:10 PM »
It is not dry, moister then a cheddar.

The tangy is very hard to describe. I want to say mechanical tangy but not real strong. I have had this same tangy but much stronger on my previous Havarti's that fail the taste test.

This is only my third pressed cheese.

The bouce factor is just not there?

PS Stopped on Friday at Rogue River Creamery and picked up their Best of Show Blue Cheese, todays is the tasting day!
"ROGUE RIVER BLUE JUDGED BEST CHEESE IN NORTH AMERICA AT AMERICAN CHEESE SOCIETY’S 2009 JUDGING AND COMPETITION"
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 02:02:32 PM by BauerHaus »


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Wayne Harris

  • Wine and Cheesemaker
  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Cheeses: 53
  • Wayne Harris
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 08:22:15 PM »
I'm not sure what Meso III is, But I use
Flora Danica as my starter culture DVI.
It contains:
(LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis 
(LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
(LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis
(LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris


I saw no mention in your post of pH data, but  CHR Hansen's Continental Cheese Make Guide refers to rather specific pH values.

You might want to check out section 4.2 of that guide.

Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 09:24:35 PM »
Wayne -
Meso III (by Abiasa) is what Glengarry calls their Floria Dancia it's also sometimes called Mesophilic Aromatic Type B.

BH -

Without a way to ensure exact procedure, temperatures and pH measurements I'd have to say based on tangy flavor and curd formation it looks like a case of over ripening to me. Also looks like it needed longer pressing it's very open.

You could try using the same recipe and procedure but either (not all)
add less starter culture
or
add rennet sooner
or
add a bit more rennet
and
press for a few hours longer.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 09:35:36 PM by DeejayDebi »

Offline Ben

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Utah, USA
  • Posts: 169
  • Cheeses: 11
  • Hand cut blue topaz
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 12:42:39 AM »
Wayne,

I have the same Flora Donica but have been told that ic can only be used with other meso cultures and not alone as the primary culture.  Do you use it alone?  Has anyone else read or been told that it can't be used alone?

Offline Wayne Harris

  • Wine and Cheesemaker
  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Cheeses: 53
  • Wayne Harris
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 09:21:32 AM »
I get my cultures from Dairy Connection.

The only other culture listed there for Gouda is :
MM100
(LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis 
(LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris 
(LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis


It also lists another culture called:
LM57
(LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris

I simply use Flora Danica as it contains all four cultures.  That in fact may be the wrong approach.  I am definately open to critique here.
I am definately not the "gouda" guy here.  Others (John?)  may have some better gouda skills.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2009, 10:04:36 AM »
I have also used MM100 but that is becuase my gouda came from Peter Dixon but I have used Flora Dancia in recipes calling for Meso III or Meso Type B because as Wayne said they have the same list of ingredients.

I just noticed that Danlac Probat 222 also has the same ingredients. I need to update my charts.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Ben

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Utah, USA
  • Posts: 169
  • Cheeses: 11
  • Hand cut blue topaz
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 06:53:01 PM »
So Debi and Wayne, to clarify you DO use flora donica as a stand alone culture with no other meso added?  Did I read that right?  I have also noted the same ingredients but also have had conflicting information.  It would be great to be able to use it alone.

Offline Wayne Harris

  • Wine and Cheesemaker
  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Cheeses: 53
  • Wayne Harris
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2009, 08:23:46 PM »
I use it alone.

But!  I am not an expert at this.  Essentially, I have made 3 wheels.  They were edible, but nothing to write home about.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline Ben

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Utah, USA
  • Posts: 169
  • Cheeses: 11
  • Hand cut blue topaz
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 08:27:59 PM »
Quote
They were edible, but nothing to write home about.

I see you and I went to the same gouda school.

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 08:10:51 PM »
I have used Flora Dancia in lieu of Meso II in recipes but not on Gouda. I use MM100 on Gouda with a bit of Flora Dancia.

Offline Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,521
  • Cheeses: 125
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 09:43:30 PM »
MM100 is a better choice for Gouda.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com