Author Topic: Gouda...not there yet  (Read 2190 times)

Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 06:51:42 AM »
Sailor,
Why is MM100 better?
In looking at ingrediants, It looks like MM100 is missing (LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris relative to Flora Dancia.
So, by saying that MM100 is better, could one infer that LMC is bad for Gouda?
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas


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Online Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2009, 12:11:32 AM »
MM100 = (LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis + (LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris + (LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis

LM57 = (LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris.

MM100 + LM57 = Flora Danica or Creme Fraiche or Aromatic B
They all use the same 4 bacteria, but not necessarily in the same proportions. And there may be other things added like lactose, so read the label. The LM57 (LMC) is available separately so you can custom mix your starter.

So when Debi uses LM100 AND some Flora Danica, she is actually doubling up on the 3 bacteria in the LM100. Flora Danica (aka Creme Fraiche or Aromatic B) are stand alone cultures.

LMC does 3 significant things. It produces Diacetyl (buttery) flavor. It produces small quantities of CO2, and it has thickening properties. That's why you use Aromatic B or Creme Fraiche when making creme cheese, creme fraiche, or Mascarpone. It's unreal how thick creme cheese is when made with Aromatic B. The addition of LMC makes a huge difference. By comparison, yogurt is very runny. My next batch of yogurt, I am going to try adding a "little" LMC to see what happens. Should be interesting because the yogurt will have to be incubated below 100F because the LMC is a meso culture. Who will win the battle, the yeast or LMC? Can they work well together? Will it be thicker? Will it make a buttery tasting yogurt?

The LLD (Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis) in LM100 also produces a little buttery flavor and CO2, but not as much as the LMC.

So, I'm sure some producers are adding a little LMC to their Gouda, but I think it's overkill. The extra buttery flavor and thicker texture are not classic Gouda. Still a good cheese. Just a matter of preference.

Ironically, some beers, Ales for example, are supposed to have a Diacetyl (buttery) flavor from yeast and some brewmeisters struggle with keeping it out of their homebrew.
Here's a link - Diacetyl Beer
« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 12:19:51 AM by Sailor Con Queso »
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Offline Ben

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2009, 10:05:38 AM »
Thanks Sailor for a great explanation.  It sounds like if I wanted to reduce the buttery flavor then I would do as Debi and add half of my culture dose of M100 and the other half as flora donica.  If I wanted to increase the buttery flavor then I would increase the ratio of flora donica in the dose.  Do I understand correctly?

Offline Boofer

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2009, 10:50:38 AM »
CHR Hansen's Continental Cheese Make Guide

Thanks for that guide, Wayne. That clears up the question for me about brine temperature on page 15.

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2009, 06:37:48 PM »
Ben - Yes you can, but I personally wouldn't use Flora Danica at all. As I said, the proportions of the 4 bacteria are not stated. If you insist on the "buttery flavor" just use a known quantity of MM100, or whatever starter that you're using, and add a little LM57.

"Buttery Flavor" is a tempting aphrodisiac. Sounds really tasty, right? So why not just use Flora Danica as the primary starter for all meso cheeses?
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Gouda...not there yet
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 07:48:50 PM »
I guess that would depend on what you have available and what you like. I just happen to have a huge packet of Flora dancia (must have hit the wrong button ordering) and no LM57. I like the flavor of a pinch or two of Flora Dancia in my Gouda.