Author Topic: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions  (Read 6032 times)

mhorlick

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Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« on: July 09, 2008, 02:53:30 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I am a relative newbie at making cheese. I bought "Home Cheese Making" by Ricki Carroll and have several of the soft cheeses and I have just completed making Farmhouse Cheddar from her book.

It's been less than a month since I made that cheese and I am anxiously waiting to cut that baby open. What will I find, I wonder, beautiful cheese, a ton of mold or some slimy gooey monstrosity.

I made my own press using some instructions on the internet. Basically 2 cheese boards stacked on top of each other. My biggest hurdle was how to press at 50 pounds. I had some weights from my muscle building days but not enough and you can only stack them so high till they topple over. Finally, I settled by creating a 30 pound bucket filled with hard cement and with 2 10 pound weights in each, voila! Still not as stable as I want but OK.

Anyways, I have a few questions.

The recipes pretty much all call for whole milk. Can I substitute a lower fat milk, 2%,1% or skim milk?
 
Since all the recipes pretty much call for whole milk do all hard cheeses have the same milk fat? How much would it be and what would be the difference in using a lower fat milk?

I bought Ricki's smallest hard cheese mold (4-1/2'Wide x 5"High) and even using only 1 gallon of milk I got a nice hunk of cheese and the mold was pretty full with that. The mold is supposed to hold 2 pounds but can't see how. I would like to make smaller chunks of cheese (say 4 pieces each weighing a half pound). After pressing but before waxing I could cut the chunk into 4 pieces then wax seperately but I was wondering if any better solutions?

I have more questions but I dont want to try your patience  ;)

Regards,

Mike from Montreal, Quebec

DaggerDoggie

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 07:49:26 PM »
Hi Mike and welcome to the forum.

I am new to cheesemaking as well so I have no expert advise to give you, but you can use different fat content of milk for the same recipe but you will end up with a different cheese.  The butterfat in milk does add a lot to the flavor and texture of a given cheese.  Some recipes call for low fat or skim milk, such as Parmesan.  Also, with lower fat milks you will end up with less volume of cheese from the same amount of milk.

Whole milk, sold in stores has about 3.25% butterfat; 2% is just that, 1% again, just as it says, and skimmed milk contains zero or up to .5%.  Milk directly from the cow usually contains around 3.5% or higher depending on the breed of the cow or the herd.

I have found that I have been getting different yields of cheese from the same amount of milk at times.  Sounds like you did pretty well.  You certainly could cut up the cheese and wax it separately, but larger cheeses tend to age better which is why you see those huge wheels from commercial makers.

Again welcome and look forward to you sharing your experiences. 

Tea

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 10:54:03 PM »
Hi Mike, and welcome.

As Dagger said, cream does play a part in making cheese.  The harder cheeses need less to no cream, and some of the softer cheese actually have extra cream added to them.  Some of the recipes that I have actually call for (when using whole milk) to skim the cream off the top and then to add a quantity of skim milk to keep the cream factor down to a minimum.

As Dagger also pointed out, most "store bought" milks have less cream in them than whole milk anyway, and because of the processing of them, it is all but impossible to take out any cream content.

You will also realise that there are different "qualities" of milk, and a better milk will not only yield you more cheese, it will also give you a much better curd size.  I have found the "cheap" milks give for small to almost non existant curd, while "quality" milk give you a much better curd formation to work with.
Hope that made sense.

Cheese Head

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 10:56:24 PM »
Hello mhorlick and welcome to this forum! Building on DD's and Tea's feedback:

Also congrats on your successful soft cheeses and hope things turn out well when you finally cut your cheddar.

Your style of press is probably very similar to others in this forum and yes depending on the size of your press and the weights you are applying it can get quite top heavy. I think DaggerDoggie has the record so far, with 150 lb! I went the otherway and bought a Cart to use as a Cheese Cart & Press, bit OTT.

I like your using cement in a bucket, very inventive, just FYI for others:
  • Specific Gravity of Fresh Water is 1, density is 1 kg/litre or 8.3 lb/US gallon
  • Specific Gravity of Cement is ~3, density is ~3 kg/litre or ~25 lb/US gallon
  • Specific Gravity of Iron is ~7.8, density is 7.8 kg/litre or ~65 lb/US gallon
So if you are concerned with being unstable with large amounts of water, a more dense material could help.

Substituting 2% or 1% or skim milk for whole milk is feasible, albeit as DD says, taste and quality suffer as you remove the fat. I would try stepping down one notch and seeing what happens, I expect skim milk could be troublesome although I've seen commercially made skim milk based cheese in stores, so it to is feasible.

On your molds or hoops, 1 Cdn gallon = 1.201 US gallon and I suspect Ricki's hoop says it's for US gallons. That said, I've pressed several 4" diameter cheeses and a pressed 2 US gallon cheese may fit, like you I don't think the curds will. From the pictures on this forum you can see that several of us buy white PVC pipe from th plumbing section of hardware stores. Here Home Depot has pre-cut 2 ft sections that you could cut to your choice of length and drill a bunch of holes and then make followers. Info on the 6" diameter ones I recently handmade is posted here.

For your small baby pressed cheeses, you could use the same but smaller white PVC pipe, ie 3" or 2" diameter. I suggest also buying the next size down pipe as a spacer between the follower and your weights. Another idea is to make one tall 3" diameter cheese and then cut it into logs aftr pressing. Problem is if you use a cheesecloth liner, it will be very folded over by the top giving large fold lines on the side of the cheese, especially for such a small diameter one, so I think you are better off with several small hoops or going without the cheesecloth with a tall cheese, just keep holes small and start off with very light weights until you build up a filter cake otherwise it will just all be extruded out the holes.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, welcome again and we'd love some pictures or your first pressed cheese!

reg

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 11:06:44 AM »
good morning and welcome mhorlick, glad to have you on board. i have a few friends in Montreal and they all play hockey for the Canadiens ;-)

like the rest i'm fairly new to the hobby. i also have the same book by Ricki Carroll and have made a few cheeses from her recipies.

have made an alpine style cheese using 2% milk just to see the difference and there is a difference. just last evening we ate some of that chesse with our dinner and after six weeks it is becoming a nice cheese. having said that there is no comparision to the same cheese using whole milk, in my opinion a much nicer cheese no question.

looking forward to hearing about your cheese making endeavors

reg


mhorlick

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 03:29:50 PM »
Hello all,

Thank you for all your "welcomes". So far, a very nice group  ;)

There's lots for me to "chew" on with your responses.

First, to "Cheese Head"... You're probably right. I got to get straight in my mind the difference between the US and Imperial Gallon. Also, I was unaware of using PVC pipe. I was concerned that it wasn't "food grade" so to be safe I ordered the mold from Ricki's website. I will be going to Home Depot or some other hardware stores this week-end looking at all the wonderful PVC piping.

Will stick with whole milk for now and will experiment with 2% as well.
 
For smaller cheeses will try first cutting into logs but once I get to those PVC pipes maybe will make smaller hoops. I know maybe this is a dumb question but is pressing say 4 small molds together with a 50 pound weight equivalent to pressing the same amount of curds in 1 mold with the same weight?

Another question..

Does brining incorporate a lot of the salt within the solution? The reason I'm asking is that I also started wine making (that's what old guys do... have lots of hobbies)) and was wondering if a wine brine would "infuse" the cheese with the wine.

A dumb question...

My son is a chocoholic. Can you make cheese with chocolate (or strawberry) milk?

Thanks to all,

Mike   

 

 

Cheese Head

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 05:47:26 PM »
Hi again Mike.

PVC pipe is installed in modern houses for water supply (and sewage) and thus is good for drinking water. One of the Cheese Supply Stores says that using PVC has for cheesemaking in US has been approved for non-commercial short term use. Basically those of using it figure it's good for 1/2 day while pressing a cheese. That said I did just order some food grade camembert hoops from a supply store. Several of us are using plastic cutting board material to make the base and for the follower, just don't cut it too small like I did otherwise the curds will extrude up around the top like mine do.

Good question on weights, in theory should be but I've never really calculated it out, the more you get into cheese making the more you go by personal judgement depending on teh end result you are trying to achieve.

Hey I used to make wine when I was a teenager in Vancouver BC but that's another story. Most of people here have, after pressing, done a wine or port bath and then a brine bath, brine really hardens the rind after which the salt is absorbed into the cheese pate. Doing the two together is possible but normally you soak in wine alot longer than brine, other wise you get a cheese that is over salted.

Lastly, hah, well I hadnt thought of using store bought chocolate or strawberry flavoured milk to make cheese :D. You can buy strawberry flavoured cream cheese in stores so don't see why now, why not try an easier flavoured cream cheese first and then go to a pressed cheese.

Happy trails . . .






mhorlick

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 06:58:59 PM »
Hi,

Yeah, I think I'll try chocolate/strawberry milk and make a soft cheese. Good idea. Later on will try with hard cheese and then play around with brining.

A couple of final questions.

Do you make your own starter? When I started, I bought the Mesophilic 5 pack from Ricki but I got only 1 pack left. Figured if I re-order I would order 12 packs since the price drops to $3/pack? Looking at the book it seems a bit of a pain making the starter but maybe it's not so bad.

Since I may reorder I was wondering if I should get Calcium Chloride. I don't see it used much in any her recipes. Does it help much in making a better cheese?

Finally, to you and the group, has anybody gone to her workshops? It looks interesting (but if I told my wife that I was going to spend $150-$350 on learning more about making cheese I think I would be making cheese only for myself from now on).

Anyways, thanks for all your advice,

Mike

DaggerDoggie

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 07:58:49 PM »
The calcium chloride really does help when using store-bought milk so you should definitely get some.

Making your own starters is not at all difficult.  What I do like about the commercial starters is the variety.  I have used both with success and failure.

Chocolate flavored cheese, now that sounds interesting.  Should be good in softer cheeses.  With harder cheeses, I'm not sure how the other ingredients, particularly the sugar, would react, but it's worth the experiment.

Tea

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 09:50:09 PM »
Mike, what wine are you making at the moment?
I have a demijohn full of mead at the moment that I really should rack again, and decant into bottles for the final maturing.  Although it has been maturing in the demijohn for the last 18mth or so.  Was only wondering the other day if cheese and honey wine would go together, but I am not sure.
Keep us updated on the wine too, I would be interested to hear your experiences.

Oh, and I'm not an old guy.  Oh dear what does that say about me.  :D

Cheese Head

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 10:43:12 PM »
Mike

All I've done todate is make my own Mesophilic & Thermophilic Starters based on the recipes posted here. That said I've finally broken down and ordered some, pictures posted here. $3 per pack for each cheese, wow! While you are waiting, why not try the homemade starters above?

Nope on the course, all leant from books, www and help of the great people here ;D. What if you spun it as a vacation for her and surprise stop in for course? Bunch of other cheese making courses posted here.


mhorlick

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2008, 01:43:06 PM »
Hi,

To Tea:

I'm making blueberry wine now. It's my 2nd wine. The first was from a kit and I'm looking to drinking the first bottle tonight. It's a White Zinfandel.

I'm also interested in mead. I'm waiting for some supplies to come in before started my first batch. Wow, 18 months! I imagine you must have sampled a bit at each racking? Have you bought the book "The Compleat Meadmaker"?
If so, I'd be interested in your review or if you have found a better resource.

To Cheese Head:

$3 per pack but there are 5 little packets per pack. So that would be $0.60 per cheese (or $1 per cheese if I order less than 12 packs) I'm going to review the steps in making a starter from the book and also from this forum. Thanks!

To DaggerDoggie:

On next order will pick up some calcium chloride. Thanks!

Regards,

Mike

Tea

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 09:15:06 PM »
Well to be honest with you, everything I have I sourced off the net.  Eventually tracked down everything that I needed from the local home brewer shop, that had absolutely no experience that they could offer, and so went it alone from there.
I originally started it for our 25th wedding anniversary which was Oct last year  ;D  but we ended up having another child somewhere in there and that threw all my plans out the window.  Needless to say it is still sitting in the pantry waiting for me to attend to it.  So all I can say is it better be darn good after all this time. Thanks for the heads up on the book, I will look into it.

So how did your first bottle of wine go.  Were you happy with it?

mhorlick

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 12:26:29 AM »
Hello Tea,

We cracked open the first bottle of White Zinfandel last night for dinner. It was quite nice. Whew! what a relief.

I did my first racking for the blueberry wine tonight. I had a taste of it and it was pretty harsh. It looks like it has to age 6-12 months so hopefully it will mellow down over time.

I'm starting a strawberry wine tomorrow and then on Monday I'm going to a u-pick farm to pick raspberries, black raspberries, currants and gooseberries. My only concern with starting with so many wines is that maybe it will all go down the sink 6 to 12 months from now. Anyways, it's not a terribly expensive investment.

I've got the wine fever and probably would do more cheese except I don't want to start another hard cheese till after my first one is tasted. I will probably do a chocolate soft cheese soon.

I'm started to look at Ricki's book about making a starter. I have one packet left. It seems that after doing it that it makes about  2 frozen trays worth but each cube only lasts about a month. So going through the process I'm not sure if it's worth. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Congratulations on celebrating your 25th. We just celebrated our 30th last month. We'll be going on a cruise next month to celebrate.

Regards,

Mike

Tea

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Re: Using Different % Fat Milks & Other Questions
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2008, 05:56:57 AM »
Your going on a cruise, how wonderful and congrats on your 30th.  Long marriages seem to be a dying thing.  I hope you have a great time.

Ok, I have a question for you.  I finally racked the mead today and decided to do a hydrometer check while at it.  According to the instructions, you subtract the final reading from the original reading and that gives you the overall alcoholic content.  Correct me if that is wrong please, because according to those calculations the alcoholic content is somewhere around the 19%  :o
I even sampled a glass or two, and I must say that it has come along way in the last 18mths.  Last I tasted it was, well umm, it wasn't.
Today I am pleased to say that it is as good as, if not better than the meads that I have tried so far.  After sampling a few of the meads around I was getting a little worried as to what I was going to turn out.
I was thinking about adding some more honey to this, just to sweeten it a little, but that is only going to increase the alcohol content ... right  ???
Your imput would be greatly appreciated.