Author Topic: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)  (Read 3925 times)

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« on: July 12, 2008, 10:18:34 AM »
Today I start my first Camembert based on this recipe, start with small 1 US gallon milk volume.

MAKING
  • July 12, 2008, 955AM: Poured 1 US gallon/3.8 litres of store bought pasteurized homogenized whole cow's milk from fridge into stockpot on smallest ring on stove, Measured temperature at 43 F/6 C and pH at 6.45. Added 4 ice cubes of homemade mesophilic starter culture and started slow warming and stirring gently with whisk.
  • July 12, 2008, 1007AM: Stopped warming, temperature at 90 F/32 C and pH at 6.07, covered and set aside for for culture to ripen.
  • July 12, 2008, 11:28AM: End of ripening, measurements 88 F/31 C, 6.08 pH, whisked in 1/4 teaspoon CaCl2 solution diluted in 1/3 cup water, whisked in 1/8 teaspoon CHR Hansen powdered rennet diluted in 1/3 cup water and re-warmed for 30 seconds. Meaurements 90 F/32 C, 6.06 pH, covered and set aside for curd to set.
  • July 12, 2008, 11:35AM: Forgot to add Penicillum Candidum when added culture, read that if spraying it on need to reactivate for 16 hours, not enough time (forgot to read that apply a day later so did still have time). Decided to add directly albeit late, so diluted 1/16 teaspoon of Danisco Brand Penicillum Candidum VS (mild) in 1/4 cup water and whisked in. Found curd had already started to set, un-set by whisking, not good.
  • July 12, 2008, 12:47PM: Curd set, as good as it was going to get, cut curd, very poor set.
  • July 12, 2008, 1:00PM: Bathed hoops and end mats in water.
  • July 12, 2008, 1:15PM: Ladled curds (which had not sunk to bottom like normal) into three standard 4 1/8"/10.5 cm diameter x 4 1/8"/10.5 cm tall hoops on top of mats on top of risers to allow drainage of whey. Curds were very poor, especially at end where very fine grained, not good. decided to proceed anyway rather than junk the batch.
  • July 12, 2008, 1:50PM: Noticed that with draining, that the three camemberts were going to be different heights with one thin probably as got tail end fine grained curds which had high whey content. Verically flipped thinnest camembert into second thinnest and leveled top with spoon.
  • July 12, 2008, 2:45PM: Now two camemberts are average of half height of molds. Turned both, one fell cleanly, second tore leaving part attached-hanging to now top mat. Peeled off and mushed into place with spoon.
  • July 12, 2008, 4:10PM: Turned both, both fell cleanly.
  • July 12, 2008, 5:30PM: Turned both, both fell cleanly.
  • July 12, 2008, 7:10PM: Turned both, both fell cleanly.
  • July 12, 2008, 8:45PM: Turned both, both fell cleanly.
  • July 12, 2008, 10:00PM: Removed from hoops, still very soft, holding via mat, powdered with salt, placed on mat in freezer Cheese Cave @ 92% RH for moulding phase.

MOULDING - DAY 2 - 30
  • July 13, 2008, age 1 day: Checked Camemberts in Cheese Cave, clear water (not whey), around drip plastic lid, drained, turned cheeses onto clean mats around placed back in Cave.
  • July 15, 2008, age 3 days: Started to become barrel shape, turned cheeses onto new clean mats.
  • July 19, 2008, age 7 days: Forgot to turn cheeses for 4 days, became lopsided barrel shapped, see picture, little white mold appearing, turned cheeses onto new clean mats.
  • July 21, 2008, age 9 days: Turned cheeses, good white mold growth, especially around side.
  • July 23, 2008, age 11 days: Nice white mould growth on cheeses, turned, minimal mould.
  • July 25, 2008, age 13 days: Cut one of two cheeses, soft texture, thin rind, little liquidy at edge where corrugated, very nice taste, slightly too salty for my taste.
  • August 13, 2008, age 30 days: Back from holiday, hopefully a point.


NOTES
  • Next time remember the six P's, PPPPPP, Pre Planning Prevents cheese Poor Performance. Read recipe through and think and plan ahead.
  • Need better drainage system for whey than into baking pans.
  • 1 US gallon whole milk will make 2 camemberts, next time use two not three hoops.
  • Next time when draining whey, put course mat beneath fine mat to aid draining of whey from bottom of cheese.
  • Next time weigh salt before shaking on by hand. Could not hold cheese in hand for salting as was too as sotf and could easily break, used mat.
  • Turning the hoops and mat sandwiches is very much like tourning pancakes or waffles, need to lift and stop and turn quickly while curd is weightless from decelleration and then slowly lower back to ground to ensure best chance of soft Camembert turning and dropping mold without breaking.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 12:47:11 PM by Cheese Head »


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 07:17:15 PM by Cheese Head »

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 10:19:09 AM »
Pictures #3 to go here . . .
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 10:36:53 AM by Cheese Head »

Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 05:32:51 PM »
Cheese Head, not sure this is of any use to you, but I put my draining cloth/mat onto a cake cooling tray first then onto the sink.  I allow most of the whey to drain off into the sink, then transfer the cake tray, cloth and all to a baking tray. 
When pressing a hard cheese, I invert the cake tray over a shallow baking tray, put a couple of supports under the cake tray, and then press.  This keeps the cheese out of the whey completely and allows the whey to drain off without touching the cheese.
Not sure that I made myself clear.  Posted a pic which holefully might help.


Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 05:52:24 PM »
OK, I think I understand:

1) For draining cheeses like Camembert, you place cake cooling rails in sink then mat on top then molds and allow whey to drain down sink. Then after th first couple hours, to free up the sink, you move that kit to a large baking tray to catch the remaining smaller amount of whey, good idea. Better than mine that as you can see in photos above was bake tray then couple spacers then mat, then hoop. Problem with mine was whey coming out bottom through mat had a hard time draining.

2) For pressing cheeses, at bottom you place a large baking tray, then a couple spacers, then cake wire cooling tray upside down so that not raised and just wires to allow route for whey to drain, then your mold.

One big difference is you have closed bottom molds, mine for camembert or pressed cheeses are open bottom hoops.

Thanks for good ideas . . .


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 06:52:00 PM »
That's true, but my big round one that I did the caerphilly and gouda doesn't have a bottom, and that has been my next problem, as the next cheese I want to do is a cheddar.  I was thinking that I might see if I can get a flat piece of PVC, or sheet stainless steel would be nice but exy, drill some small holes in it, and use that as the base plate for pressing.
I'll let you know what I work out.  If I work it out.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 06:59:29 PM »
For my pressed cheese hoop bottoms I've done that, cut up a polyethelene kitchen cutting board to larger than the hoop and drilled small hoels through the bottom, still not great as no route for whey to then go from holes out under the cutting board. I'll try your wire rack spacer, that should work.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 10:23:46 PM »
Tea, after 12 hours I salted and put the two Camemberts into my high humidity cheese cave.

When I tried to lift one up for salting it was very soft and could have broken, so I held it on the mat and shook salt against it and then flipped it over and repeated. When you make Camembert are they that soft?

Mine may still be too soft as I screwed up making curd and as on single fine mat so poor whey drainage, next time will put on top of fine and course mat to better aid drainage away from bottom of cheese.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 09:42:26 AM »
Tea, this morning I had clear water around Camemberts, you can see it at one end of plastic tray. Presumably the salt dehydrated the curd, do you have this effect?

Also, my larger Camembert was slightly barrel shaped this morning, fair enough, you also have this? Thanks.

Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 04:27:45 PM »
Cheese Head, mine were quite firm after sitting over night.  Then they went into a brine solution for 1 hour.  I remember thinking when I took them out that they were firmer that I expected, and was wondering how they were going to become all soft and gooey.
From the time I took the cheese out of the molds, I had no more whey leakage. I would think that salting like you did would draw out any extra moisture that remained in the curds, but I also think that the poor curd formation that you got, would definately be affecting them.
When using drying mats, do you also put the mats of cheesecloth? I find that the cloth seems to help draw the moisture away, and prevent it from sitting.  Just wondering if that might help.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline fkeese

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Posts: 14
  • Cheeses: 1
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2008, 07:14:46 PM »
I don't think you can stir anything into newly set curd, it doesn't seem to be able to remake a good curd, in my experience.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2008, 07:44:35 PM »
Hi fkeese, wish I had your experience, I found the hard way that once curd starts to set, don't touch it, otherwise you end up with the mess I had in picture #2 above.

Offline reg

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Niagara Falls Ontario Canada
  • Posts: 271
  • Cheeses: 4
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 06:36:31 AM »
CH wish i could help but i have no clue with that style of cheese

reg
reg

Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2008, 04:35:28 PM »
Boy yours did fall apart didn't they.  The only time I have tried to resurrect a cheese was by adding more rennet if I haven't had a curd form.  If I can't get a proper curd to form, then I know that it is going to be all but useless.

My cheeses still look like the last photo that I posted, and I am going to open one this weekend.  I am a bit apprehensive, because you either nail the camembert flavour, or you have missed it.  SO crossing my fingers that it tastes alright.

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: John's Cheese #021 - Camembert #1 (Six P's)
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2008, 05:21:55 PM »
Cut one of two cheeses from this batch yesterday at only 13 days age, picture and notes above.

Camembert flavour and rind although rind is a little thin as still immature, texture soft and little runny at edge where waffled, slightly too salty for my taste.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 05:29:00 PM by Cheese Head »