Author Topic: Setting temperatures.  (Read 1477 times)

Offline Divey

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Sydney, Australia.
  • Posts: 17
  • Cheeses: 1
  • You must have a handcrafted beer with your cheese.
Setting temperatures.
« on: December 27, 2009, 12:38:37 AM »
Hi all,

This is my first post here. :)

I have made a few Camemberts in the past with varying degrees of success. Some have been too soft and others too hard.

The question I would to ask is what effect does a higher or lower setting temperature have on the finished cheese?
If a recipe calls for a setting temperature of 31 C and the temperature you actually set the milk at is 33 C how will this effect the cheese?
All beer is good, but, unfortunately some are better than others.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 02:49:59 AM »
I would think that the main problem with milk being too hot, would be killing off the culture which are heat sensitive.  I am sure that others will chime in and give the technical answer, but that would be my worries.

Offline Ben

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Utah, USA
  • Posts: 169
  • Cheeses: 11
  • Hand cut blue topaz
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 09:28:35 PM »
I am trying y first white mold cheese right now.  I have read a lot on this forum in preparation.  I believe that the variable that effects the texture the most is the aging temperature.  If I don't have that right then I am sure someone will chime in and set us straight.  I also believe temp during the make will have an effect on the acid development curve.  This may effect final texture of the cheese, but indirectly via the PH, not the temperature.  Again, just my speculation.

Offline zenith1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Wallkill, New York
  • Posts: 801
  • Cheeses: 25
  • "Blessed are the Cheesemakers"-Monty Python
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 09:58:52 PM »
Hi Divey, I'm not sure what you mean by setting temperature, but temperature is something that you need to closely control throughout the process. During the ripening phase it is critical to the acidification due to the temperatures affect on the starter cultures ability to utilize the milk sugars, thereby producing acid essential in the correct quantity to produce good cheese. Too high a temperature- too fast a production, Too low a temperature-too slow a production. That's why there are many people here who(correctly) advocate checking PH along the way. In the curd cooking phase, temperature has a major impact on how moist a cheese will be in it's final state. Again, too hot-dryer, too cool-moister. This is why you see the grating style cheeses having the curds cooked at a higher temperature. The curds will loose more whey, resulting in a dryer, harder cheese that can be grated, unlike a moist cheese like a jack style which has more moisture. Also, as has been put forth earlier in this thread, the bacterial starter require a specific temperature range for optimum growth. The affinage(aging) of the cheese wheel is again done in a fairly specific temperature range to allow for normal bacterial and mold respiration to take place. This will allow all the necessary enzymatic processes run and complete the flavor and texture development. In summary tight temperature control is critical in all phases of cheese making. Other than that, have fun! :D
Keith

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 10:01:28 PM »
Well one thing is that the higher temperatures will make for tighter curds and drier, crumbly cheese as low temperatures will not shrink the curds as much and allow the curds to hold more whey making wetter curds which could  sour.

Also higher temperatures can also harden the outter edges of the curds and not alllow whey to escape.  SO many variables!


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Divey

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Sydney, Australia.
  • Posts: 17
  • Cheeses: 1
  • You must have a handcrafted beer with your cheese.
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 10:06:24 PM »
Okay, the setting temperature is what I consider the temperature that you bring the milk to and then add your cultures and mold spores. Then when you keep it at the temperature after adding your rennet and allowing for the whole quantity of milk to set into one large curd.
All beer is good, but, unfortunately some are better than others.

Offline zenith1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Wallkill, New York
  • Posts: 801
  • Cheeses: 25
  • "Blessed are the Cheesemakers"-Monty Python
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 11:39:41 AM »
OK Divey- then you are really talking about two temperatures. The ripening temperature- the temperature of the milk when you add your starter cultures, and the cooking temperature- the temperature that you cook your formed curds  after you have cut the curds to their initial size. The are almost always different temperatures based entirely on the type of cheese that you are making.
Keith

Offline Divey

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Sydney, Australia.
  • Posts: 17
  • Cheeses: 1
  • You must have a handcrafted beer with your cheese.
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 04:07:37 PM »
The main reason I was asking this question is because I made a Camembert whereby the recipe called for a ripening temperature of 32 C and then to maintain that temperature all the way through the entire process. I want to know what will the effect be on the cheese if that temperature was kept at 33.5 C for the entire process.
You have pointed out earlier that too hot-drier, to cold-moister. That's fine, but how much does the temperature have to change for this to be a major problem? And now you have said that the ripening temp and the cooking temp are two different things. Will the ripening temperature produce a drier cheese if too hot or is it the cooking temperature that will create a drier cheese if too hot.

Sorry for asking these dumb questions, but I can't find the answers I want to know anywhere.
All beer is good, but, unfortunately some are better than others.

Offline zenith1

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Wallkill, New York
  • Posts: 801
  • Cheeses: 25
  • "Blessed are the Cheesemakers"-Monty Python
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 05:58:09 PM »
The main reason I was asking this question is because I made a Camembert whereby the recipe called for a ripening temperature of 32 C and then to maintain that temperature all the way through the entire process. I want to know what will the effect be on the cheese if that temperature was kept at 33.5 C for the entire process.
You have pointed out earlier that too hot-drier, to cold-moister. That's fine, but how much does the temperature have to change for this to be a major problem? And now you have said that the ripening temp and the cooking temp are two different things. Will the ripening temperature produce a drier cheese if too hot or is it the cooking temperature that will create a drier cheese if too hot.

Sorry for asking these dumb questions, but I can't find the answers I want to know anywhere.
No questions are dumb.
The recipe is a guide to produce a cheese as close to the normal for that variety of as possible. The temps are your guideposts to reach that objective. If you are off in maintaining the correct temperatures it does not necessarily lead to a bad cheese, just one that is different in some way from the original. Maybe better in fact. That is why we should keep good notes on the process so we can duplicate our successes, and avoid or failures. Having a higher temperature during the ripening phase will cause a more rapid acidification than the original recipe called for. So that may affect the flavor and to some extent the texture. If your temperature is too high during the curd cooking phase, you will cause the curds to release more whey as they shrink than the recipe called for, therefore creating a dryer product. Again, you may in fact like the finished product more so it may not be a bad mistake. How much 1.5 degrees C will affect the finished product would be hard to guess at.
Keith

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 09:40:43 PM »
Well Divey I guess that would depend on whether or not you calibrated your therometer and how accurate i was. a few degrees won't make much difference. Some thermometer come from the store off by 10, 20  and eeven as high as 50 degrees off.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Divey

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Sydney, Australia.
  • Posts: 17
  • Cheeses: 1
  • You must have a handcrafted beer with your cheese.
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 10:07:56 PM »
Well Divey I guess that would depend on whether or not you calibrated your therometer and how accurate i was. a few degrees won't make much difference. Some thermometer come from the store off by 10, 20  and eeven as high as 50 degrees off.

This is a quality thermometer that I bought. It was not cheap and I have checked it against some good quality (Brannans) mercury thermometers. It's okay.
All beer is good, but, unfortunately some are better than others.

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 10:31:12 PM »
You should check it often. They do go out of calibration and price doesn't ensure a good calibration.  Bouncing around in a drawer can throw off the calibration.

Offline Divey

  • Young Cheese
  • **
  • Location: Sydney, Australia.
  • Posts: 17
  • Cheeses: 1
  • You must have a handcrafted beer with your cheese.
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 11:28:48 PM »
I am a very keen all grain brewer and let me tell you temperature control in the mash is critical. I look after my thermometers like babies. :)
All beer is good, but, unfortunately some are better than others.

Offline Tea

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,914
  • Cheeses: 27
Re: Setting temperatures.
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2009, 02:41:01 AM »
I haven't read the whole thread, so not sure if someone has already pointed this out.  But when heating milk using a water jacket as the method of heating, turn off your heat source when the milk is 2-3 degrees lower than the temp that you are wanting.   The water jacket is hot enough to bring the milk to the correct setting temp without any further heating needed.
I do agree though that most culture, either thermo or meso, have a fairly wide temp range before you start to render them either inactive or useless, so a degree to two here and there, will, for the most part, not make much of a difference to the final cheese.