Author Topic: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins  (Read 11161 times)

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2010, 05:15:21 PM »
Deb-

Your on the right track sort of ...

Prague powder #1 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite and 16 parts salt. You normally use 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat. Used at any time meat is not immediately put into freezer or refrigerator, such as smoking, air-drying, dehumidifying, etc. This is similar to and sometimes called Curing Salt.

Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. You normally use 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat. mainly used for products that will be air cured for long time like: Country Ham, salami, pepperoni, and other dry sausages.

http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/CuringAgents.htm



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Offline kawatiri kaas

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2010, 03:48:25 AM »
Fantissimo!! You don't know how long and how hard I've looked for that exact information.
Cheers :)
Brett Westport West Coast New Zealand

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2010, 07:47:45 PM »
I have a little chart comparing the different cure mixtures. I don't know if it is different in other countries or not. I know there are some difference in the way my Canadian members get their cure mixtures but if I remember right they added .... drawing a blank sorry ... but it's to keep it from sticking together and maybe baking soda or baking powder? I forget which.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2010, 08:49:29 PM »
Whoa DeejayDebi!
...Jacques Pepin's Saucisson recipe calls for 1/2 cup salt for 2lbs meat. It makes the tenderloin done, done, done and done like a jerkey within about 7-10 days at average room temperature.  I always wondered how on earth did he come up with a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of curing with his crazy amount of curing salt.  When I began making these I often would have to soak them overnight in filtered water to desalt and soften them (Like one would do with salted Cod).

In my own version I reduced it to 1/4 cup curing salt (I use the Morton TenderQuick brand) and doubled the brown sugar.  This turned the thing ready in about 3 weeks, which still seems slow but I think safe (considering the short time I cure Panchettas and you cure your Lomo). I still have to constantly moist the meat (Wet towels, though your idea of spraying water sounds better).

So are you saying I only need less than 1/2 Teaspoon curing salt for each 2 Lbs pair of tenderloins? I can't even imagine how to sprinkle such small amount on these loins.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 08:57:42 PM by iratherfly »

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2010, 09:07:49 PM »
If you are using Tender Quick it's different!

Morton's Tender Quick is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate and sugar. Exact proportions could not be obtained. You normally use 1 level tablespoon of their cure for 1 lb. of meat.

Personally I think Tender Quick is very expensive to use. I calculated it all out one day and I think i came out that it would take like 15 bags of Tender Quick to cure the same amount of meat as a 1 pound bag of prague powder #1. Tender quick is mostly salt. Prague powder #1 requires less than 1/4 teaspoon per pound of meat. It is also easier to use because you don't have to try and figure out how to compensate for the extra salt in recipes.


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Offline iratherfly

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2010, 09:18:40 PM »
Oh ok! I almost got a heart attack thinking I am about to die of a nitrite poisoning :)

Tender Quick costs $4.49 for a 2Lbs. bag - at this cost and the amount of curing that I do it is negligible. (2Lbs is about 60 tablespoons so 60Lbs of meat cured for the cost of less than $5 is okay if you are not a commercial venture that worries about overhead).

And do you suppose all is safe if it feels ready in as little as 3 weeks?

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2010, 09:28:33 PM »
Yes if it looks ready it probably is. I also prefer wet brines to dry curing most of the time. Sometimes a surface cure doesn't completely penetrate the meat which can be frustrating. I often do 20 to 50 pounds of meat at a time especially when doing hams and such - but compensating for the salt in sausages and that sort of thing is maddening with Tender Quick.  If you are such curing solid meats it not to bad.

Offline Deb

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 05:52:15 AM »
I have tried recipes that use both MTQ and Prague Powder #1 for Canadian Bacon & Belly Bacon and found that I like the recipes that use Prague Powder #1 better.  The end product seems to be less salty than recipes that are done with MTQ.  (I am using the cure in their respective recipes, not interchanging).   Like Debi, I also like the wet brine better. 

I don't think it's been mentioned but Prague Powder #1 has several names (all the same % of sodium nitrite and salt) -- Pink Salt (not the himaylan pink salt but in reference to the fact it's tinted pink so it's not mistaken for regular salt), Cure #1, Instacure #1 and a few others. 

This discussion reminds me that I have two hams that need to come out of the brine tonight, to be smoked tomorrow :D :)

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 03:00:33 PM »

This discussion reminds me that I have two hams that need to come out of the brine tonight, to be smoked tomorrow :D :)

Go get em gal!

Offline iratherfly

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 12:52:00 AM »
The thing is, I do like the meats that are dry-cured better - duck prosciutto, game tenderloins, etc. Perhaps I should try a proper Prague #2 next time. Sounds like it has much better control over salt.

One good ting I found about the TenderQuick over-salting is that I can cut the meat and use only a desired portion by leaving it in cool filtered water overnight. The remaining meat are kept, crusted by salt. I can come back to them 9 months later and consume these parts in a similar fashion. True preservation.

Deb, is Canadian bacon the same as what the Canadians call Peamill Beacon? do you use cornmeal or Maple with it?
Debi - 50Lbs??? Does it rain cows and swines over there? Where do you do all of that? Amazing!


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Offline Deb

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 05:41:16 AM »
Iratherfly,

I have not done peamill but I believe basically the same thing only rolled in cornmeal. 

Here is the recipe that I started out with (uses tenderquick)   I have used the brown sugar and also changed out the brown for maple sugar.  I have also added a little maple syrup towards the end of the curing process

Now I use the recipe from Charcuterie (Ruhmlan & Polcyn) which is a brine.  It calls for "sugar" ,  I usually use brown or maple sugar

I'll address Debi's question too :)  I have never done 50 but the two hams I have going i the smoker today would be 20 lbs(total) if I hadn't boned them.  I would have done double but was time restricted in starting them.

Deb

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 03:44:37 PM »
The thing is, I do like the meats that are dry-cured better - duck prosciutto, game tenderloins, etc. Perhaps I should try a proper Prague #2 next time. Sounds like it has much better control over salt.

Definately better control of the ingredients!

One good ting I found about the TenderQuick over-salting is that I can cut the meat and use only a desired portion by leaving it in cool filtered water overnight. The remaining meat are kept, crusted by salt. I can come back to them 9 months later and consume these parts in a similar fashion. True preservation.

That is one thing you can count on. Getting rid of the over salty flavor is tough. Sometimes you can get rid of some of it through soaking in plain water but not all and sometimes it takes with it more of the natural juices from the meat.

Deb, is Canadian bacon the same as what the Canadians call Peamill Beacon? do you use cornmeal or Maple with it?
Debi - 50Lbs??? Does it rain cows and swines over there? Where do you do all of that? Amazing!

What we in the US call "Canadian Bacon" is not the same as what Canadians call "Peameal Bacon". I used to think it was just a rolling of the meat in corn meal BUT I  recently had it explained to me on my forum by a very good Canadian cook. 

Canadian Bacon is brined pork loin. I could be smoked and usually is. Store bought is usually not smoked but has that liquid smoke added to the brine water.

Peameal Bacon or Back Bacon is brined pork loin rolled in cornmeal but is NEVER smoked and never has liquid smoke added to it.

50 pounds is a pretty average smoke for me. I love to have my smokers full when I smoke. I have had all three of my smokers going at once and had close to 300 pounds of meat going at a time but that rarely happens. I often smoke to make lunch for the folks at work and will serve 40 to 80 people in 1 hour by myself.[color]



Deb -

Keep in mind sugar can come from of form sugar you choose, white brown, honey, corn sugar, molases, maple syrup, dextrose, fruit juice, pinapples anything that is sweet. The sugar is not so much for the sweetness as it is to counteract the bitter flavors that you can get with salting.

This is a typical smoke for me in my Smoke Vault:

Offline iratherfly

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 12:23:23 AM »
Debi and Deb, thanks for all this useful info!

This smoker is huge! How many people are you cooking for?

In my last batch I did an A/B test; two identical loins with identical process, only on one of them I washed the salt after the first 12 hours with cool water before spicing; on the other I just wiped it off which left a lot of it in.

Last night I decided to cut them for a dinner party I was attending tonight. Side by side, the washed salt one was less dry and cured. Less salty obviously but not but much to my surprise. Instead of soaking, i cut paper-thin Prosciutto like lengthwise slices of it and gave them a 3-5 second brisk dip in cold water, wiped the surface, than vacuum packed them. They came out very nice (and slightly thicker) but you are right in that the water takes out much of the flavor; not just the salt.

On my next attempt I will do only a tablespoon of salt per Lb and wipe off the salt rather than wash it. If I ever need to desalt them in water again I will use flavored wash such as brandy with herbs-de-provance rather than plain filtered water. Will post photos shortly

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 06:56:29 PM »
That is one issue I have with dry salting. Wet brining doesn't loose flavor with rinsing all has equalized in the brine.  Did you dip them to rinse the salt off or some other reason? I would rinse it uncut dry it then slice you will only have to worry about the crusty salt on the outside.

My Smoke Vault is really not that big it's like 24.5x17x31 but I can really pack it in there. I think that day I was smoking for about 60 people but I try to fill the smoker when I do smoke. It freezes well and I often get requests to bring my goodies with me when I go somewhere.

Offline Cheesetart

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Re: Dry-Curing & Aging Prosciutto-Style Tenderloins
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2010, 07:42:14 PM »
I'd love to get the recipe for this.  My husband has been in sausage making mode and this sounds like something great for him to try!  THanks!
Happy Cheesemaking!
Dee