Pressing Weight/Pressure -Gouda & Others

[DeejayDebi]

Also, I believe member Debi also presses lighter than 4 psi as I do, I remember here pictures with large cans as weights for here 7" diameter wheels.

Have fun!

Yes I am of the less is best but longer is stronger philosophy ... 

I use #10 cans of tomatoes or beans or something. Sometimes one or sometimes two and sometimes I use different sized cans and force it under my cabinets for more pressure. Depends on how they look and feel to me after a few flips.

[wharris]

Pressure distribution is not uniform, that's why we flip the hoops, for even pressing.

While I get PSI.  I really do.

But its that stiffness, that springiness of the curd, and the distribution of that pressure (PSI) throughout the wheel innards, that I was trying to articulate previously.

I don't know exactly what the effects are, but I cannot help but think that depth of pile of curds (more stiffness, more resistance to press pressure) plays some part in the press process.


Hypothetical example:
Consider 2 wheels of cheddar being pressed at 5psi
Wheel A: 8in diameter and 6 inches tall
Wheel B: 8in diameter and 600inches tall

In my minds eye, the pressure in the middle of both wheels will not be the same.

[FRANCOIS]

It's a mute point as most cheeses adhere to strict aspect ratios.  Exeptions to the rule (like emmentaler) are for very good reasons.  I see your point and yes, wheel B would have curd consistency issues, but it's not anything that should keep you up at night.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Wayne,

Do you feel like the density of your large cheddars is substantially different towards the middle of the wheels?

Longer pressing means more acid production prior to brining.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Why is Emmentaler an exception to the rule? Because of production size?

[FRANCOIS]

Wheels generally conform to strict windows of height vs. width as well as volume to surface ratios.  Emmentaler violates both because it needs a weird aspect ratio to form eyes properly.

[Likesspace]

Okay Francois...you just got my attention.
What do you mean by weird aspect ratio concerning an Emmentaler?
Does the size of the wheel, really affect the amount and size of eyes that will be formed?
If so, what is the aspect ration we should be looking for?
I've been working with this particular cheese for a number of years and have yet to produce an example that I am happy with.
The taste is right, the texture is right but I have never formed the types of eyes that are seen in commercial examples.
Maybe this is not the right thread for these questions but I really am very curious about this. If you would feel more comfortable, doing so, please post your reply as a new topic in the swiss style forum.
Thanks in advance.

Dave

[FarmerJd]

I love this forum.   I just read the last 10 posts and it is just amazing. We really are a bunch of cheese nerds.

[wharris]

Do you feel like the density of your large cheddars is substantially different towards the middle of the wheels?

I don't know.
Basically, its just an intuition I have failed to articulate effectively,  but one that FRANCOIS referred to when he spoke of  the nonuniform pressure distribution inside a wheel

Incidentally, Francois's reference to non-uniform pressure distribution inside a a block of cheddar is confirmed here.

[FarmerJd]

I would say yes the center of the cheeses on my 20 lb wheels is less knitted; especially the 10 inch ones. I assumed this was a whey expulsion problem but I guess after reading Wayne's link even that could be related to uneven pressure issues.
Sailor, I see your point about the whey expulsion supporting an open system view, but the curds themselves are closed so it is very complicated. But psi is definitely the common link. Agreed.

[cath s]

Cath, there's several discussions on amount of pressing weight in several threads in this board including issues about height, mold type (escape route for whey), and acidity of curds.

On pressing weight for Gouda, I did some research here, also the Salmon Arm Canada cheese maker video is useful to get an idea, they press for up to 2.5 hours only and when pressing their biggest 4 kg wheels.

yes cheers John...I have my answers about pressing weight earlier on the piece...  thank you adding in some more useful info.
I am very interested in the current discussion tho......
Does that mean I am a cheese nerd???  A noobie cheese nerd???

[FRANCOIS]

I would say yes the center of the cheeses on my 20 lb wheels is less knitted; especially the 10 inch ones. I assumed this was a whey expulsion problem but I guess after reading Wayne's link even that could be related to uneven pressure issues.
Sailor, I see your point about the whey expulsion supporting an open system view, but the curds themselves are closed so it is very complicated. But psi is definitely the common link. Agreed.

A 20# wheel that is 10 inches thick?  I would think that aspect ratio is pushing it on even a small commercial scale.  It takes immense pressures for our 50# blocks which are about that thickness.

As far as emmental aspect ratios, I have commercial experience with copies of this cheese and it really only works well (big uniform eyes) with thicknesses around 5-6 inches and diameters no less than 16 inches.  Even then it's critical to have them painted with PVA to give us much stiffness during formation as possible and to keep the gas encapsulated.  Emmental is weird because bigger wheels just have bigger diameters.  You won't find them thicker though.  It simply won't scale in thickness like most other cheeses.

[FarmerJd]

Francois, I was referring to the hoop diameter not thickness (sorry I didn't make that clear). I sometimes use a 12 inch hoop so my wheels are not so tall. The only catch is that it greatly reduces my pressure because of the added area. This is why I am interested in this topic. I can only produce about 15 - 20 psi on the 10 inch right now. The 12 inch hoop produces a "less thick cheese" but it is less knitted. My 10 inch cheeses are very tall (maybe 7- 8 inches) and I am wondering what the effect is on the outcome.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Francois, so what pressure (PSI) do you use on a 16" Emmental? I suspect that would be very difficult to acheive with a home press.

[FRANCOIS]

35 psi final press.  Pre-press is automated so I don't know that off the top of my head.