Ricotta-Second disappointment in a row

[Alex]

I am desperate. Making cheese for a long time, as well as Ricotta from their whey successfully.
Last weekend was the second consecutive disappointment. I had 11 liters of whey from Camemberts and Debi's Toma Valmonte. Same farm, same cows, same milk, same procedure.

My basic way for making Ricotta:

Heat whey to 72-75 deg C
Add about 10% raw whole milk (to increase yield)
Heat mixture to 88-90 deg C
Add 250-300 ml 5% vinegar/5 liter of whey (not including milk) and stir
Let stand for 5 minutes and ladle the "clouds" into a cheese cloth colander.

NO CURDS AT ALL, JUST SOMETHING LIKE SEMOLINA FLOUR FLOATING IN CLOUDY LIQUID.

WHAT'S GOING WRONG?

[Brie]

How old was the whey--I think you are supposed to use within 3 hours.

[FRANCOIS]

Are you able to check the pH after vinegar addition?  pH should be 5-5.25.  I suspect you just aren't adding enough acid.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Sometimes 90C (194F) is not quite enough. Heat it to 98-99C (210F) or just under the boiling point. Can make a big difference. As Francois said check your pH or add some more vinegar. A really good batch of Ricotta will float to the top and can easily be skimmed off by hand. Filter the rest with a fine cheesecloth or butter muslin.

[Alex]

How old was the whey--I think you are supposed to use within 3 hours.

I'm afraid you are wrong, because whey is supposed to be left to acidify something like overnight.

[Alex]

Are you able to check the pH after vinegar addition?  pH should be 5-5.25.  I suspect you just aren't adding enough acid.

I don't have a pH meter. I want to emphasize that the procedure I've described is the one I follow several years. Thanks anyway.

[Alex]

Sometimes 90C (194F) is not quite enough. Heat it to 98-99C (210F) or just under the boiling point. Can make a big difference. As Francois said check your pH or add some more vinegar. A really good batch of Ricotta will float to the top and can easily be skimmed off by hand. Filter the rest with a fine cheesecloth or butter muslin.

Sailor, I know what a really good batch of ricotta is, therefore I'm so frustrated. I made this last batch in to vats, 5.5 liters each, a mixture of Camembert whey intentionally left in my kitchen overnight, and fresh whey from a Toma Valmonte. In the second vat I added 1.5 times the vinegar I am used to add. The last thing I'll try next time, heating up to 98-99 deg C.
It's really pity, because I made wanderfull gnocchi from ricotta used instead of  potatoes.

[FRANCOIS]

How old was the whey--I think you are supposed to use within 3 hours.

I'm afraid you are wrong, because whey is supposed to be left to acidify something like overnight.

Both of you are correct.  If you are using whey from a high pH cheese (like gouda) you can let it ripen some more.  If you are using swiss whey you can use it straight away.  Actually both can be used stright away if you add enough citric acid.

[Brie]

Francois--is there some sort of a list of kinds of cheese and the length of time to use the whey? Gereneralized, of course.
Thanks!

[Gürkan Yeniçeri]

Alex,
I try to get some ricotta regardless of the cheese type and the procedure is similar to yours. I am using this cloth called calico to gather those semolina sized curds and from 8 litres I've got at most 800g once.

Add 1 litre of milk (usually UHT),
Heat it up to 95C,
Add the 1/4cup vinegar (for 8 litres of content ),
Turn off the heat, let it cool
Go and watch a movie,
Come back and strain it through Calico

Calico is almost like sheet or pillow cover. It drains slowly and takes time but you don't loose the precious little curds. Once I kept the whey about a day on the bench and I think the acidity has risen too much that ricotta is appeared on top without heating though must be different protein because Albumin protein does not come out without heating (correct me guys, if I am wrong)
Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricotta says, it needs to be acidified first.

[FRANCOIS]

You can use any whey right after cheesemaking of you add enough acid.  It all comes down to pH.  So, for example, if you use whey from chev after final hang, the pH is too low (below 5.0) and will give you a bizarre texture.  If you use a washed curd tomme whey stright away the pH would be high 5's to even 6.1,  this would need acid added.

So, to answer your question, high pH whey you can hold longer because you have more time before the pH drops below useable levels and starts to turn to sour whey.

[Alex]

Thanks Gurkan and others,

For 8 liters I add even 1/2 cup of vinegar. I failed the last couple of times with the ricotta and I still don't know why. Anyway, I won't give up. I don't know the Calico stuff, I use the old style diaper as cheese cloth for draining to, it's very dense knitted.

[Brie]

Made a 4 pound swiss today in my cheese-making blowout of a weekend (I have 10 gallons of raw milk and 2 gallons of cream), so decided to try a ricotta. Used the whey as soon as I molded the swiss (with an extra quart of milk) and followed Alex's directions (used 1/4 cup of cider vinegar). Oh my, light, big, pillow-puffs of curd floating on top of the pot--should be at least a pound. Now, what to do with the rest of the milk and cream--any ideas?

[DeejayDebi]

I don't know if there's any kind of list so to speak but I have found that hard cheeses like Italian parmesans and romanos or pasta fileta cheeses like to wait over night for the best yield.

Soft cheeses that are not washed like to be used straight away.

Washed curds cheeses don't yield anything so don't bother.

That being said I don't add milk to my whey I just recapture what's left.

[FRANCOIS]

I don't doubt your observations Deb, but I would just point out that ricotta plants, and even skid mount ricotta machines, all use caustic injection.  Basically they use sodium hydroxide to increase the pH above 6 before heating.  This is done so that when the whey is heated to 90C and acid added, it doesn't floculate and turn into slime.