Author Topic: Funny mozzarella  (Read 5422 times)

hydromojo

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Funny mozzarella
« on: January 15, 2010, 02:06:23 AM »
Here's a photo of mozzarella made out of the same batch of pasta fillata with entirely different results.


I used water at 160F for both, the braid being subject to multiple small pourings of water at 160F or slightly higher and being manipulated with wooden kitchen utensils.
Not sure why I couldnt get the smooth texture on the second one. It stretched ok, but in the end, it started getting granular so I stopped any further processing.

Any clues as to what I may have done wrong the second time ?

linuxboy

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 02:16:15 AM »
Second one has too much acid development and would not come together again because the electric charge of too many micelles degraded from the acid, meaning they could not come together well. It stretched at first because likely it had uneven acid distribution in the curd, and by stretching, you distributed it. Do you have the pH?

hydromojo

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 12:20:13 PM »
thats an interesting note. I dont have a pH indicator as of now.
But the time between dousing both these samples was maybe 15mts.

linuxboy

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 04:28:17 PM »
Mozz is a really picky cheese. I've had almost the same thing happen with a batch of my mozz. Did a large batch, but milled a little at a time from the ball of drained curd. I milled, then took those pieces and made 8 ounce balls of mozz. By the time I got to the end, there was a noticeable difference in how long the curd would stretch before breaking. It became more grainy. Still managed to get it smooth in the end. Mine was the same thing, 15-20 minutes difference. This is one of those cases where a .1-.2 difference in pH made a huge difference to the final outcome. The stretching in mozz is not a magic point of having a pH of 5.3, but a continuum that starts around 5.8 and theoretically goes all the way down to 4.8, by which point you likely won't be able to get a stretch. But this is not always true, because it also depends on the condition of the milk. A higher casein milk, for example, has higher buffering ability and is more forgiving.

Offline Lennie

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 04:34:23 PM »
How does one measure the pH of a curd?  Make a water extract or push the probe right into the curd?

And how can you slow the progression of the bacteria once you get to a good pH?  Refrigeration?

Could a person soak the curd in a solution of baking soda to increase the pH?

Finally, does a mozzarella made with the citric acid method, change pH?  I would think not.

linuxboy

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 07:06:35 PM »
How does one measure the pH of a curd?  Make a water extract or push the probe right into the curd?

Answered in the other thread.
And how can you slow the progression of the bacteria once you get to a good pH?  Refrigeration?

I've posted some common methods before, but to recap, this is in order of efficacy: temperature rise or drop from the optimal for the bacteria type (meso or thermo have different thresholds), and salting. Salting has less of an effect. You want to kill bacteria or stop metabolysis to stop acid production.

Could a person soak the curd in a solution of baking soda to increase the pH?

Yes, but pH is not some magical indicator. I mean, if you increase pH, it does help with stretching, but the stretching has to do with the micelle ability to slide over each other. Let's recap some science of coagulation. First, rennet cleaves k-casein, exposing the underlying micelle, and with the help of Ca++ ions, the micelles bond to each other, and you get a matrix, which then expels whey. Cool, you have curd, heat that, acidity drops. Now with the acidity development, you have another complex dynamic, which is the conversion of di to mono calcium paracaseinate. This conversion is where you get the stretch. Here's an interesting tidbit, if you used a very slow acidifier, and aged mozz curd at 60-70 F for a few days, the pH would be somewhere around 5.8, and it would stretch. Why? Because the lactic acid aided the conversion.

What you mean I think is that if the conversion happened, but pH was so low, say 4.8, that the micelles could not bond well. Yes, if you neutralized the acid and brought the pH up, it would help.

Finally, does a mozzarella made with the citric acid method, change pH?  I would think not.

What do you mean? Citric acid is acid... when you add it, it puts citric acid ions into solution, which decreases the pH. [edit] Oh, do you mean after you add the acid, is it stable at that pH because there are no bacteria? Yes, if there are no contaminants, it will be stable.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 07:13:52 PM by linuxboy »

humble_servant7

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2010, 07:41:46 PM »


Answered in the other thread.

Which other thread?

you dont mind posting a link to it do you?



I've posted some common methods before, but to recap, this is in order of efficacy: temperature rise or drop from the optimal for the bacteria type (meso or thermo have different thresholds),.

Forgive me but I'm not getting this part. Can you elaborate or post a link to a thread in whcih you go more into depth on this subject, showing the techniques of how to actually do this? Because I want to know the answer to this too.


linuxboy

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2010, 07:51:58 PM »
Hi,

Here's the one where I talk about pH measurement: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2909.0.html. I was answering Lennie, so I figured he'd remember his other post :). In that thread, I reference yet another thread: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2683

In terms of slowing down acid production, Debi has posted about it, and I think one of my takes is here http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2629.

Sorry, I don't remember the exact ones. I know I've talked about it before. The gist of it is that if there's too much acid production, raise the temps to 105 for meso or 120-125 for thermo to kill off some of the bacteria. You could also cold crash, but that's more of an idea after you have curd or the cheese is in the press.

hydromojo

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 02:12:36 AM »
Thanks linuxboy. thats some serious chemistry happening there. Will try and experiment with shorter 'wait times' to see if I get better resuls. And i have to invest in a serious pH starter kit.

MrsKK

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 11:50:21 AM »
Hydro, can I assume that you are using pasteurized/homogenized milk?  The reason I ask is because I've never had an issue like this, but I use raw milk for making my cheeses.

Can anyone else comment on this?  TIA

justsocat

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2010, 03:54:32 PM »
Yes, Karen. I use raw milk for my cheeses too, and never had a single problem with mozz. Right from the very first time on.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 06:28:52 PM »
Same here no problems and I have use raw and store bought milk ...

Tea

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 08:31:23 PM »
I have found that when I use raw, I can make this cheese no worries.  It's when I use store bought that I have to be very careful with it, and yes I too have had the above happen.  If I remember last time I made with store bought using the pH meter, I found that it reached the correct pH level long before the recipe said that I should have, and I have wondered it maybe I have been leaving to develop too long.

Offline Lennie

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2010, 04:32:56 PM »
Thanks for sharing the excellent info Linux, and yes I had seen the other thread.  Sorry for the double post, I'm still learning where things go on this forum.  I asked the pH measurement question as I was thinking about this thread, and then figured this would be good info for the other section.  When I post in a How-To section, I try to use good title words so it can be searched.

justsocat

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Re: Funny mozzarella
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2010, 02:50:13 PM »
I want to confess that today i fail completely with the mozz. For the first time i took pasteurized milk instead of raw one. And though i did everyting as i usually do, i got weak curd set and than no stretching. You folks who use store bought milk are really great cheesemakers! I give up using pasteurised milk >:(