Other Heating Ideas?

[linuxboy]

Wayne, that's what I use, but mine is non-tilting. It has a whey drain 2" pipe coming out that's optionally screened, and you don't really need to drain, just scoop out the curds and pack them in molds. I have a 30 gal Groen, the biggest size made that still works on single phase current. Doesn't even need a boiler, just a 220V line on a 50 amp breaker. If you look for auctions or restaurant closeouts, you should be able to find a cheap one. I got mine for $600. Tilting would be better, but it's hard to beat $600.

[Sailor Con Queso]

So what do you actually call that thing if you are searching online? A kettle with a water jacket?

[linuxboy]

Try steam kettle, soup warmer, jacketed kettle, tilting kettle. Can also try the brands in combination with the search, such as "Groen kettle" or "Groen tilting". Biggest brands are Groen, Cleveland, Vulcan, Mueller, Lee, Legion, and a few other ones I can't recall.

[wharris]

I have a canned search for Groen Kettles up on Ebay.

They are always up on Ebay.  I *almost* pulled the trigger on a 40gal tilt Steam kettle that he was gonna let go for 750.

[Sailor Con Queso]

There are lots of "kettles" on e-Bay, but they all seem to be gas, 3-phase, or require an external boiler/heat source. There are small 5 gallon soup kettles that are self-contained single phase, but that's overkill for just 5 gallons.

[linuxboy]

Sailor, mine was originally wired for 3-ph, but I rewired it for standard 1-ph and ran a line out to the garage on a 50 amp breaker. It would heat up faster with 3-ph, but I'm not boiling anything, just heating milk up to temp.

Running a gas line is also a good solution, but I don't have gas on my property, else I would have. If you do that, make sure your installer or you pay attention to the gas pressure and use a large enough pipe, and make sure the incoming line from the company has high enough pressure, or request them to bump it up.

From an electrical perspective, you should be able to rewire most of the kettles, it's just that once you get above a certain wattage input requirement, it's not practical or efficient. I think up to 40 gals is OK on a 240 line at 60 amps max (14.4 KW). If you find a kettle you like, let me know and I can try to figure out if it's possible to rewire it to single phase. Up to 40 gal you should be fine, so long as you can dedicate enough juice to the circuit.

You can also get a phase converter and if the voltage is off, a buck/boost transformer instead of rewiring the kettle.

[blackthorn]

I have one. It's 160L, has a water jacket, an inlet and outlet and small pressure release tap, a lid and removable agitator and tilts. It's a complete nightmare, I have no experience in dealing with these things I just thought I'd get someone to hook it up, I've had it 6 months and I'm sure I've rung everyone in the country trying to get it set up but no go and my milk supply comes online in 2 months, I've just kitted out my cheese room but it looks like I'm going to have to rethink the vat-at huge expense. Any advice? I thought we could fit and element with a thermostat inside the water jacket and use it like that but I've been told it won't work, I'll try to get some pics up for you (much-smarter-than-me) guys 
Vanessa

[linuxboy]

What type of kettle do you have? Does it need a separate boiler or is it self-contained? We can try to figure it out, but work with your inspector if you're commercial to make sure it would be ok.

[blackthorn]

It's just a shell basically, I need to get the water in, out and at the right temperature somehow (BTW its a 'thermostar' no idea where it came from originally-I suspect it may be swedish). Someone suggested using an instant gas hot water system and then recirculating the water though the water jacket and back to the gas unit (minimal heat up as water would only lose a degree or two) but the units I find go from 37-85c which is fine for pasteurizing and yoghurt but too high for most of my cheeses (30-35c), so I thought of having a small electric hot water with a thermostat at 30-37c and switching between the two as and when needed-I also need to reuse my water and cool the vat so it gets even more complicated Here are some pics for any of you who'd like to see 'the beast':

[blackthorn]

Oh and my dairy inspecter has very helpfully told me that he'll look when I'm done and tell me what I need to fix.................
Vanessa

[linuxboy]

Someone suggested using an instant gas hot water system and then recirculating the water though the water jacket and back to the gas unit (minimal heat up as water would only lose a degree or two) but the units I find go from 37-85c which is fine for pasteurizing and yoghurt but too high for most of my cheeses (30-35c), so I thought of having a small electric hot water with a thermostat at 30-37c and switching between the two as and when needed-I also need to reuse my water and cool the vat so it gets even more complicated Here are some pics for any of you who'd like to see 'the beast':

That someone has the right idea. You need to consistently apply heat to heat the milk and then turn off the heat (in this case, the pump), by having an auto or manual switch when the milk has come up to temp. You have to remember that in this case, with an external boiler, you're replacing the typical internal self-contained system with an external one. The internal system shuts off based on a thermostat, and you need to build a similar one if you're heating with a boiler. To do this, one method is to have a solenoid valve that cuts the gas when temp is reached, or work with an external regulator to do basic on/off for the boiler.

Seems like a typical boiler system like the HERMS/RIMS used for beer brewing could work. Do you need ultra detailed steps for how to get this working because nobody around you will help? You can always rig this up to be on a manual switch and cut it 1-2 degrees F before temp and let the milk equalize.

[blackthorn]

I've now been told that there isn't a pump that wil pump hot water?? Surely there must be? If we had detailed instructions or a diagram we may be able to get someone around here to understand what we're on about, we do degrees centigrade (we're in Aus), I sometimes wish I was a electrician, plumber, engineer and allround handy I'm good at looking after sheep, if that counts LOL
Vanessa

[wharris]

A quick look at the McMaster-Carr site revealed a number of pumps that will circulate hot water.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#water-pumps/=5yc1eq

I looked in the "Centrifugal Pumps for Circulating Water" section.

[blackthorn]

Thanks wayne
Vanessa