Questions about thermophillic cultures

[Veja]

Hello again folks,
I going to try mozzarella again, but I have some questions about the recipe on this site.
I have some unflavored yogurt (with live cultures), is that the same thing as a thermophillic culture? For a gallon of milk, how much yogurt?  Can I use buttermilk?  If so, how much, and is it easier/better than yogurt?  Also, the recipe says that if the ph isn't right, it won't "spin".  What is this "spin"?  How do you do it?  Thanks for all of your help. 

Two other things: for the brine solution, what are the proportions?. and, I thought that salt was added to the curd to promote stretching.

[Gürkan Yeniçeri]

Hi Veja, Welcome to the forum,

Yogurt can be used as termophilic starter and the limit is 20ml yogurt for each litre of milk (you do the conversion) 

Buttermilk is a mesophilic starter so it is totally different.

Spin is the stretching of the curd. Take a piece of curd and try to stretch it. If it is stretching without breaking; it is done. I advice you to get pH strips or a ph Meter. It gives you much more control on the process.

Brine is saturated, so dissolve salt in water till the additional salt won't dissolve and then use it. Don't throw away the brine, you can reuse it.

Good Luck with your Mozzarella.

[Veja]

Thanks ever so much for the info.  The recipe says 2oz of yogurt per gallon, however I guess that I can increase that amount quite a bit if needed. 
I appreciate the help.

[MrsKK]

I make mozzarella in 5 gallon batches, using skimmed raw milk and 2 cups of yogurt.

For a good explanation of "spin", see Fankhauser's Cheese Page - here's the link to his mozzarella recipe:  http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Pasta_Filata/Pasta_Filata.html  Step V.a. is where he demonstrates spin.  I don't have a ph meter, but have great results with mozz using Fankhauser's method of testing for spin.  It usually takes the curd overnight (at least 8-12 hours) to acidify properly.

I heat my curd in a gallon of whey with a cup of kosher salt added to it.  It is a good way to add salt to mozz, as I always ended up with crunchy spots in the cheese when I tried kneading the salt in.  I think the whey gives it good flavor, too.  Just reserve the whey in a clean container in the fridge while the curd is acidifying.

Buttermilk is a good substitute for mesophilic culture - it can't take the heat necessary for making mozzarella, but makes great cheddar, colby, etc.

[Veja]

Hello MrsKK,
Thanks for the link.  After seeing his method, I am going to go with his.  That is a great site for cheese impaired people like me.
Thanks alot

[MrsKK]

Not impaired at all!  It is all a learning process and I was fortunate enough to find Fankhauser's page when I was just starting out with making cheese.  I love how simple he makes things and how he demonstrates the use of common house-hold goods in the process.  It took away my doubts about trying it out because I'm not the kind of person to go out and spend a lot of money when I don't even know if I'm going to enjoy the new venture.

Please let us know how it goes for you.

[Veja]

Well, I used Dr. Fankhauser's recipe and all went well until I tried to melt the curd prior to spinning.  The curd just dissolved away!  Does anybody know what I did wrong?  The curd sat overnight (about 12 hours), the water was at 185F, is this batch trash?

[linuxboy]

Too much acid buildup. You usually only need to wait 3-5 hours for the curd to spin. With that much acid, about the only thing you can do is inoculate it with a blue mold and make a blue cheese out of it, which will bring up the pH when aging.

[Veja]

I did not have any curd formation after four hours.  It took seven hours to be able to cut the curd.  The recipe then says to let it rest overnight -eight hours minimum. 

[MrsKK]

Since you didn't have good curd set up to start with, I'd say there was another issue going on.  Old or not enough rennet?  Ultra pasturized milk?

I just made a batch yesterday (need to heat & stretch it today).  I used 2 cups of yogurt to 5 gallons of skimmed milk, then 1/8 teaspoon of powdered calf rennet after allowing the yogurt to acidify the milk for an hour.  I had a good clean break in 45 minutes.

I've used Fankhauser's method for making cultured mozzarella for over a year now and have always had good results, unless my milk was old.  I do use raw milk from my own cow, so my experiences can't always be translated directly for use with store bought milk.

[MrsKK]

BTW, I think the reason this curd doesn't over-acidify when left overnight is that it gets washed in cold water before it is allowed to age for several hours.

[Veja]

Hello Karen,
After I saw the link to Dr Fankhauser's site that you posted, I used his mesolithic (buttermilk) recipe.  The rennet tabs that I used are about seven months old.  Out of a two year shelf-life, I would think that they are OK.  The milk is low temp (155 degrees for 30 minutes).  I get my milk from a farm dairy store and was able to talk to the foreman of the dairy.  The milk is trucked in every day.  The buttermilk is fresh too. 
Any other ideas?  I'm stumped!

[MrsKK]

I've never used just buttermilk when making mozzarella and I'm wondering if that was the issue.  From what I've read, buttermilk is a mesoophilic culture (lower temps), while yogurt is a thermophilic, for use in higher temps.

I'm sorry you didn't have very good luck.  How much buttermilk to milk did you use?  Were you able to keep the milk at a consistent temperature from the time you added the culture to the milk, through adding the rennet and waiting for the curd to set up?

In looking back at his recipe, he has you add the rennet just 15 minutes after adding the culture.  When I made my batch this week, it was nearly an hour after I'd added the culture and the curd set up in about 45 minutes.  Maybe your milk wasn't acidic enough when you added the rennet?

I've never used a ph meter, so I'm just winging it.  I'm also prone to a lot of interruptions, so my times tend to be a bit longer than the recipe calls for sometimes.  I have to admit that I didn't consult a recipe this time, just went by memory of how I've done it before.

Don't give up!  Better luck next time.

[Veja]

After reading the link that you gave me, I realized that it was a  mesolithic type.  Still I thought that I would try the buttermilk recipe.  I used 2oz buttermilk to one gallon of milk.
What does yours look like before you add the rennet?  Mine just looked like heavy milk.

[Cheese Head]

Veja, did you use buttermilk strait from the bottle or pre-ripen it first to make it really strong?