Author Topic: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues  (Read 3100 times)

Offline Goat cheese

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Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« on: August 04, 2008, 11:31:14 AM »
Hi, I have made my first five! 3 pounders of cheddar from our goat milk. I used the recipe from Cheese making by Ricki Carrol book. It calls for 1 Tablespoon of salt per gallon. So, I cut my 1st cheddar, and it is way too salty, so will be  all other four I assume. I can still eat it, but the salt is overwhealms the taste. Then another issue, it is crumbly and very hard. Does it suppose to get softer after aging or not? I had also waxed it over a week ago, one cheese developed a grey mold spot (very bitter taste close to the spot), the one I cut today, since it is ruined anyway, I may re-wax the halfs to see what will happen next. The other three are still sitting OK. My main problem is that I have about 3 gal of goat milk per day, and I have no choice but to make it all into hard cheese without having time to learn and experiment much. My husband's  idea at first was to buy a goat for self-sustainability, then he kept buying more goats and  decided that we have to go into goat cheese business, that I liked too in the beginning, but now I am too warried about whole thing and it is very hard on me. I am making cheese every 2nd or 3rd day, and you know how long it takes.  It will take a while to organize a certified cheesemaking kitchen. I have nailed making yogurt, chevra and feta, but there is only so much I can give to friends and eat myself (ourself). So I made a few lots into cheddar, gauda, swiss, and as all they are sitting in extra fridge aging, I am getting sick waiting for the next dissapointment or failure. This maddness is already going for two months. The goats eat over $200/month, and already almost $2,000 spent for goats, books, presses, cultures, etc. Had anyone else been in similar stupid situation? Are any experienced or professinals goat cheese makers are out here on the forum to help me with a few questions. Don't critisize me, I have no choice, but to keep going, most women will understand. Besides I love the goats, and I like making cheese, and have no way to learn but from the books. I have also made one 2lb Saint Maure with white mold, it aged for three weeks, and I tried it today, waiting for lemony taste described by someone on the forums. It looks great, was aged accordingly to books, and tasted bad. I even could not finish a piece of it. I don't know how it suppose to taste, I can't afford to buy it to try. Well, that is my stupid story. I can not afford taking workshops. Is anyone in similar situation now or was ever? Lena

Offline Tea

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 03:54:46 PM »
Hi Goat cheese and welcome to the forum.
I am assuming that if the goats are costing you $200 a week, that you are hand feeding them?    Pasture and feed has alot to do with the flavours that come through the milk, so maybe it is what you are feeding them that you can taste in the milk.  Clover and sweet grasses give a better tasting milk.  Try taking them off their feed a few hours before milking, and see if that makes a difference in the flavours.

Any cheese will be hard and flaky if the original curd is too dry.  It sounds like that and the combination of the salt has made the cheese too hard.  Other moulds on the cheese are unfortunately a sign that work surfaces and equipment were not as clean as they could have been.  If the mould is under the wax, then it was there before the wax was applied.

Have you tried making soft cheeses with your milk.  Halloumi and fetta are great ways to use goats milk, and in the brine solution will store for months.  Also you could make the maltese cheese, as that is relatively quick to process and the results can them be frozen for later.

I know that ash is also applied to goats cheese to "leach out" the strong flavours of the milk.  Maybe the cheddar is intensifying the flavour of the goat.

I agree with you that goats are beautiful, we once ran over 400 of them.  Goat meat is my favourite meat too.  Stick with it, and don't get discouraged, and I hope your plans eventually work out for you.

Louise, another member here also runs goats, I hope she chimes in and give you some pointers too.

I hope this is of some help.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2008, 11:28:07 PM »
Goat Cheese / Lena

Wow, what a story and adventure! Congrats on your perseverence and dedication, your are very much to be commended. Frankly I have not yet made any cheese with goat's milk primarily as no source. Tea has some great experience and advice.

I'm on holiday but have a nice new cheese making book to read called American Farmsteading I got from Amazon here in USA. So I'll look through that and hopefully have some more info for you. The only things I can add to Tea's response is:
  • Sorry, but I don't think your cheddars will get less crumbly with age, in my experience it's normally a one way trip.
  • On going commercial, where in the world are you and I can help get some info on that or do you have it already?
  • I have also had a tough time with a couple of the recipes in Ricki's book, I think milk, cultures etc is part of it.
  • Lastly, keep on going, it will get better/easier. OK easy to say from afar, but seriously, you will get on top of your problems with time and experience..

Lastly lastly, you asked if anyone had a similar experience. While it wasn't me, years ago when I was a summer student, I lived in a small town in Alberta, Canada, and there was a friend who decided to raise rabbits for meat in his backyard, New Zealand something type I think, they were huge. He'd started with two doe's and one buck and when I met him he was on third generation with cages all over the place as he still couldn't bring himself to kill one! There were a lot of large rabbits. OK not the same as your situation, but I hope this example brightened your day and brought a smile.

Offline Goat cheese

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 12:55:34 AM »
Thank you very much for responding. The goats coast me about from $300 in a month to feed. We have bought a new property in country and building a house from scratch, so much work, that still could not take care to make good fencing, besides the goats are with us only for two months, all new adventure. There is a lot of grass, but the fencing is still not ready, and no time to work on it yet. So, we feed them with expensive grass/alfalfa mix, $12.00 per bale that they finish in 2 to 3 days, plus  grains, and all kind of stuff accordingly to Fias farm and other great goat farms recomendations, that I found online. Got cheep hay yesterday for only $100 per ton, but none of them even touched  it, were standing hungry and screaming. The milk tasts absolutely great, especially from nubians, and very fat. I make feta and Chevra, and it is very good, with no goaty taste or smell at all. Some people tried and did not believe that it was made from the goat milk. That is the milk from Nubians. Alpine/Nubian cross - also very good milk, without any goat taste absolutely, but less fat, and less cheese weight. The only time I tried goat milk was about 20 years ago, and I did not like it. When my husband decided to buy a goat, I went to the store and bought chevra goat cheese to  try. I did not like it. My husband and daughtrer said it is good, and never touched it again later. Went to the dump. The farm owner who sold us the 1st goat gave me to try chevra again, and I had to mix it with a few gloves of garlic to mask the taste, I did not like it either. Ans surprisingly, the chevra that I make is great. I was moving it at first in my mouth for a few minutes trying to feel something wrong, but nothing. It is great. Now I am so addicted to eat it, that it makes my breakfast, lunch and desert after dinner. It taste like Russian tvorog that I used to, and could not make it here from store bought milk. I give it to friends and a few Russian families, everybody loves it.
The hard cheese is what makes me crazy. I have three gallons every day to put into hard cheese, and working myself to death, pasteurizing, making cheese, jars, jars, milk, milk, more starters to buy, more presses to buy, making my head swallen, and have no idea what it is going to turn into after aging. The only good books I found about goat cheese make both soft cheeses, which is not a problem. I don't know how the molded cheese suppose to taste, I was very dissapointed with Saint Maure aged for three weeks. There is no goaty taste, just not tasty, though two people advised to make it, they said after S. Maure you won't like Chevra. I did not also like Feta with added lipase first until I tried it with greens in salad. The 2nd batch was made without lipase, and I really missed it, will add a pinch of it next time. Cheddar did not work out at all, all milk and work waisted. It is hard to take.
I have bunnies too, the poore kids sitting waiting for the weddings, still have no time to take care of breeding. I know the easy way to k... the bunnies, just injection of air into ear vein. It painless and fast.   

Offline Tea

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 03:50:40 PM »
Oop my bad on the feeding costs, my apologies.

Aaahhhh the joys of live stock without adquate fencing or facilities.  We did the same initially, and ended up putting everything else on hold while we got that done, as we were wasting so much time and money having to feed and handle them all the time.  It was an insane time.  I made my husband PROMISE me that next time he wanted livestock, that he put in place all the fencing, pen, house etc, BEFORE he bought one animal.  sigh

I agree, fetta without lipase is just not the same, quite bland.  The lipase is what gives it character.

Take heart, it will all work out in the end, it just doesn't feel like it when your in the middle of it all.


Offline calgal98

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 11:52:47 AM »
You might have to get yourself a feeder pig to feed excess milk to and even the cheese that you don't like.  If you work yourself to death in the early stages you risk beginning to hate it!   I use Nigerian Dwarf milk for all of my cheeses, and am trying it for the tradional cow milk recipes.  I haven't been disappointed yet but have to wait another month or two for opening the first cheddar.  I don't think of any of the *failures* as such.  Its all a learning experience and well worth all of the trial and error to learn.  Besides, the time I spend with my goat girls is so relaxing (except when one steps in the milk bowl---aaarrrrrrgh.   I haven't tried as many as you have.  I'm still working on understanding the process for the cheeses I've made.  Time to branch out a bit.  Calgal

Offline Brian

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Goats
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 11:43:41 PM »
Howdy folks.
Never owned goats before and was told by someone that unless the goat has had a kid, you can't get milk.  Is this true.  I know that's not true with milk cows.

Thanks

B

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 03:52:07 AM »
Welcome. It's very hard to diagnose your problems without knowing your process. What is your sanitation process like? How long did you age the cheddar before cutting into it? What recipe did you make? What size batch was the cheddar? What kind of press are you using?

Anyway, the point I'm getting at is what your process is like. It doesn't need to be lengthy but bullet points.

As with the salty taste same thing depends on the length of aging.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Missy

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Re: Goats
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 12:20:52 PM »
Howdy folks.
Never owned goats before and was told by someone that unless the goat has had a kid, you can't get milk.  Is this true.  I know that's not true with milk cows.


LOL  Yes it's true with cows and goats.. and even humans.  The animals produces milk after a birth, but with faithful milkings, you can keep the supply going for a while.  :)  Then you breed again and start over. 

Offline vlyons

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 06:31:08 PM »
I'm milking a few goats that yield about 2.25 gal per day. I love to make cheddar from the raw goats milk. When I first started making cheddar, the 1 T of salt per gal was too much for me also. Now 1 to 1.3 T salt for 2 gals seems to be about right for my taste. It's very important not to let the curds go above the target temp for the last phase before draining off the whey. You also have to keep stirring and not let the curds bunch into a big ball.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 12:41:24 AM »
V, how long have you been making cheese? Also, when you say too much salt how long did you age those wheels for? Thanks for the info, it's good to hear first hand experience on somthing like that as it would suck to spend all that time just to end up with a salty cheese. My recipes call for 1/2 Tblsp per gallon, my Stilton's though call for 1 Tblsp per gallon.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Brian

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2009, 05:21:00 PM »
How silly of me thinking that cows didn't need to "calf" up.
Duh.

Anyway, the original question was about goat milk cheddar taste.  I don't like it.  I wanted to, but it tastes like the smell of goats.  If that makes sense.  I also don't like lamb for the same reason.  Tastes like the smell of wet sheep.

Found a source for raw milk and spoke with the man about raising milk cows.  He said you can never leave once you have them.  Milk at night and milk in the morning.  If you don't the cows can get "Milk Fever" and die.  I asked what he did with the calves after they were born and he said he sold them for $200 each.  Which isn't profit considering what alfalfa costs these days.

Nope.  I'm just going to buy raw milk.  I applaud those of you that raise livestock.

Brian

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2009, 08:32:34 PM »
How much are you going to get the raw milk for?
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline H.A.M.

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2009, 09:14:34 PM »
I got a bit lost on this thread considering that the original post was quite awhile ago and there seem to be several conversations going on simultaneously.  :P

My comment is that goat milk is more fragile in nature than cow's milk which makes it easier to digest and harder to handle.

The quality of the milk initially depends on the diet and management of the doe. If anyone produces their own goat milk I'd be glad to chat about what types of feed and management work for me.

Goat milk should be cooled quickly to retard the natural enzymes. If your source doesn't know exactly how long it takes the milk to cool to 40* experiment before investing heavily in their milk. It must stay cold until cultured which means you should take ice and a cooler if you aren't picking it up out of your own fridge.
Use as fresh as possible. 48 hours is the maximum I prefer to let milk wait before culturing. Freeze if necessary.
Warm the milk gently. Quick temperature changes will breakdown those wonderful caprilyc and capric fatty acids causing the off goaty flavor.
In addition handle the milk and curd gently. Brisk whisking and excessive agitation will also cause fatty acid breakdown.
Use fresh, strong cultures. You want  the culture of choice for your recipe to guide the flavor development.
Cleanliness is, as always, a huge factor in getting consistent, great tasting cheese. It always pays off to sterilize your utensils and equipment especially for a cheese that will be aged.
To sum up goat cheeses should never taste goaty. In my opinion storebought goat cheeses are poor representations of the possibilities in goat milk products. If I want to taste buck (billy goat) I can go lick my bucks.  :D I am not going to tolerate that flavor in my food.

Offline Brian

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Re: Anyone made goat cheddar? Taste and texture issues
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2009, 10:58:11 PM »
"How much are you going to get the raw milk for?"

$7.00 a gallon.

I'm glad to hear that good goat cheese doesn't taste "goaty".

I'll give it another try.

Brian