Petit Tomme experiment... Creative ideas or comments anyone?

[DeejayDebi]

You cheese looks great! Very attractive. Can't help you with the Reblochon mods I haven't tried this yet but I plan to soon.

[Brie]

This should be interesting, IRF, what are you trying to achieve? Love to see the pics as this cheese ages. No geo or  b. linens? Are you planning on any smear with these in aging--I have read that both tommes and Reblochons have these added.  Have several Reblochons aging right now, so can't comment on the outcome as of yet--perhaps in a few weeks. Keep us posted!

[iratherfly]

Thanks Debi and Brie!
I am trying to achieve a pastier inside. Not flaky or fragile but more moist and soft; like a Roblechon, Morbier, Taleggio.
The PLA culture I'm using already contains both Geo and B.Linen in it (+ 2 other stinky and fun cultures). This B.Linen strain is more yellow than orange. Tomme is such a liberal and generic definition of cheese, that you can freely do whatever rind or paste you want as long as you keep it round, with rind and relatively small.

I am going to do a bacterial rind wash every couple of days - just like I did with this petit-tomme and the new goats' petit-tomme (4 fl oz. water + 1 tsp kosher salt + a pinch of PLA. Activated at room temp for 12 hours before first use). The goat's tomme however proved to me that the B. Linen and Geo can certainly come out on its own as it did in the week I was stuck out of the country. It was totally covered before I even washed it once! (not very even or thick though)

I will keep you posted with photos. The goat's version should be ready in about 10 days or so. When did you make your Roblechons? Are you washing them yet?

[Brie]

I have two sets of Relochons aging right now. The first I added a touch of P. Candidum in the milk and it is blossoming all over with white mold. I did wash daily with salt solution and b. linens; but that white rind keeps blooming. The second, I did not add the p.candidum (geo added to both sets), and am washing daily with same salt solution and b.linens--taught to add the p.candidum as a spray during the the last few weeks of affinage. Will update on progress.

[iratherfly]

I know about the spray but never tried it. It always seem like a method taken from mass production... I still inoculate it in the milk. Are you using an atomizer?
P.Candidum is indeed stubborn, and other molds like Geo would be killed by the amount of salt you need to rub/brine in order to kill it, so just keep it on. Who knows what interesting character it could give your Roblechons? Maybe you can give it your own name, Roblancon or something (get it? get it?)
You say "in the last few weeks of affinage" - how long are you aging them? Itsn't Roblechon affinage only 28 to 35 days?

By the way, I am going to post another experiment later this week. I just got the idea (an the tiny molds) to do a cow's cheese inspired by Rocamadour or Cabecou. Any creative ideas on that one?

[Brie]

So, you are innoculating the milk with p.cand and geo? That's what I did with my first. Yes, short ripening time, I suppose I should taste mine within the next week and will report back. Did you wash yours with b. linens or add to milk as well?

[iratherfly]

Sorry, I wasn't around for a few days. The Tommes - I only inoculate with PLA now. No P.Candicum. The PLA contains a strain of B.Linen and a strain of Geo. I then wash it with a PLA wash and rub salt to help it out. Today the cheese have finally showed the first signs of Geo. No B.Linen signs as of yet.
As for the Camemberts - YES, I do inoculate the P.Candidum and Geo right into the milk at the same time I put the Meso in. My tiny micro Camemberts have just shown their first PC bloom today. They are 4 days old. By tomorrow they will be all white. I use Geo 17 and PC neige which makes it grow super fast. I have never done the spray thing. Are you using an atomizer to spray? Or just a spray bottle?

[iratherfly]

OK... here it is. #2 of the 3 experimental Petit Tomme was done.
This one was almost the same as the successful first one, only it was a Goats' milk - hence we'll call it "Petit Tomme de Chèvre"

At 5 weeks (The first two without treatment or turning; I was in Europe and got stuck there for 10 extra days due to the volcano) the aroma came together nicely, the rind turned orangy-yellow (oh, that funky PLA culture). It was drying faster than I wanted because I reduced humidity to help the B.Linens and inhibit the Geo, so it was time to try it.

Looked - great. Smelled - Fantastic. Flavor - Nice and as expected though though disturbed by the sourness of cheese that is too young. Texture - WAY OFF; Chalky, flaky, brittle, dry. Melting test - miserable results.    Where did I go wrong? Ideas?

P.S
I was adviced by some of you that a shorter milk ripening prior to adding the rennet will eliminate the flakiness issue. I made this cheese before I knew about it so it was long inoculation. I am now trying a short inoculation 3rd version of this recipe. This one with techniques borrowed from Morbier methods to make a soft paste. Will be ready in 10 days.

[linuxboy]

Flaky/chalky = too high draining pH. Meaning too long ripening, too much culture, too long of a cook, or temp too high leading to fast acid production. Or some combination of the above. Tommes are acidified after curd fusion and drained with high pH.

[iratherfly]

I hope I didn't do ALL of these things wrong but only one...
I think I will start with shortening the ripening period and possibly cut the meso inhalf because I am already suppelmenting it with MD89. Do you think that inoculating yeast (such as KL 71) would help? It is supposed to raise the pH level (and also help with the rind buildup when smearing).

[DeejayDebi]

I'm sure you didn't do them all but sometimes it's best to adjust one thing at a time till you figure out what it is so you don't compound the problem. Looks wonderful! Love the mold patterns!

[iratherfly]

Thanks Debi, the mold patterns are from pressing lightly in the mold under whey without cheesecloth. They work great to trap the bacterial smear to it starts building up rind later.

My log shows that I used 1/8 tsp FL-DN + 1/8 tsp MD 89 for ripening. I know these are two mesophilics but the MD89 on its own is not strong enough to ripen milk (I use it bot buttery flavor small eyes). Still, together it might have been too strong. The other thing is, I have ripened it at 86F for 55 min. I suspect this was the issue. I probably shouldn't have ripen it longer than 15-30 minutes. This is a nasty old habit I bring from the world of Camemberts...

My current experiment (#3) is a couple of weeks away from making it and it is far softer. Ripened only 15  minutes and pressed lightly.

[Cornelius]

Linuxboy, you have been of great help to me on another Tomme thread, but now I am terribly confused ... above you mention:

Flaky/chalky = too high draining pH. Meaning too long ripening, too much culture, too long of a cook, or temp too high leading to fast acid productio

Shouldn't that be "Flaky/chalky = too high acidity at draining = PH too low" ?

BTW, iratherfly, beautiful cheeses! I wish I had such rinds!

P.S. I am still out of town and can't check on my own cheeses, but I am happy to be in touch in spirit via this forum 

[linuxboy]

I'm sorry, was one of those running out the door moments. You're absolutely right. Too low draining pH, too high draining acidity. My thoughts went faster than my brain. Chalkiness tends to happens when you fuse the curds that have too much acid already built up. It's also more of an issue with goat milk, especially when it has been overhandled.