Author Topic: Beaufort Recipe  (Read 6734 times)

Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2011, 03:09:40 PM »
It is the diacetylactis/D culture in the MM100, that is absent in the MA19, that brought me to wonder if the MM100 might lend a buttery note, absent from the MA19.  Basically, wondering whether the MM100 was suitable as a base culture over the MA19. 

Thanks on the L. lactis/FD info, interesting. 
- Paul


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2011, 03:31:33 PM »
Yes, it is. Works fine. You actually don't want predominantly LH for this cheese, the proteolysis will be all wrong. You want lactococcus blend, ST, and a little LH and propionic. Sailor's mix for this is pretty classic, and you can have other blends to achieve a similar effect. Maybe what I should do for this thread, if you're really interested, and write up the reasoning for each culture choice, so that you can use substitutions if you want. Maybe next week, in a meeting right now (bad me)
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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2011, 03:55:42 PM »
Pav, I think I'm just being cheap, and that's never good reasoning, at least not without also asking, "yes, but will it work as well?"

In other words, I was thinking I got my meso from the MM100, thought I might get some diacetyl production from the included diacetylactis, and my ST (and LH) from the Thermo C, which I have. 

A long-winded way of asking if I could make a decent Beaufort with MM100 and Thermo C, instead of MA011, TA061, and LH100, none of which I have.  It seems the LH might suffice in the Thermo C, and, from your message, I understand the diacetylactis component (and consequent citrate fermentation) seems negligible in the MM100; it's the pre-ripening,  with FD or MD89 (I see that's pure L. diacetylactis) that would add the buttery "touch." 

Curiously, and not to add further confusion, I see LM57 is also used for "buttery notes."  I know you've talked of leuconostoc elsewhere, so will have to dig that info up.  And read, and re-read, my Fox. ;)

- Paul

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2011, 10:40:49 PM »
A few quick notes:

Add a little LM-57 to MM-100 and you get Flora Danica or Aromatic B. I have been using Aroma B instead of MA-11 for quite some time and I like the flavor much better.

LM-57 = Leuc m. cremoris. The Leuconostoc make long chains, so in addition to the diacetyl flavor (buttery notes), it acts as a thickener. It also produces some gas, so there is some small eye formation. This is true for Beaufort or Gruyere.

LH100 is a low acidifying thermo culture that includes Lactobacillus lactis. Note - this is NOT Lactococcus. Because of the slow acidification properties, you generally use a TA61 (Thermo Acidifying) culture and/or a Meso acidifier in combination with LH100. Lactobacilli are considered maturation bacteria and enhance flavor & texture. So you would use LH100 and TA61 when you want a classic Swiss or Alpine flavor and texture. Thermo C is a really basic culture used primarily for Italian types. Not a good choice for Beaufort or other Alpines.

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2011, 11:05:09 PM »
Thanks, Sailor, the distinction/reminder of LH as lactobacillus and as a maturation acidifier does help my understanding quite a bit.  Couple more questions.

You indicate using a meso and/or thermo acidifiers in conjunction with the LH.  I'm getting a loose understanding of why one, other or both would be useful - but don't know enough, and more, enough about this style, to lock it in.  Can you clarify a bit on alternatives - using a meso, thermo or both?  Specifically, givcn a curd cooking temp & stirring protocol, can you clarify some reasons why one would want one, the other, or some proportional blend? (e.g., say, you use only meso, get your acidification at 88, then kill it off by bringing up to 140; how would this differ from using only thermo, resting at the optimal thermo range, and then proceeding on to cooking range?).  I'm tired, and may be missing the obvious here, sorry if so.

Secondly, does either seem reasonable:  1/8 tsp MM100, 1/32 LM57, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii; or 1/8 Aromatic B, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii?

Edit:  Please ignore paragraph 1.  I see the posts by both LB and Sailor on page 1, explaining the reasoning behind the meso/thermo mix.  Thank you both - a brilliant thread.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 11:37:42 PM by ArnaudForestier »
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2011, 01:28:36 AM »
Secondly, does either seem reasonable:  1/8 tsp MM100, 1/32 LM57, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii; or 1/8 Aromatic B, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii?
My second Beaufort had:
  • 1/8 tsp Aromatic B
  • 1/16 tsp Thermo TA
  • 3/16 tsp LH (a slight mismeasurement  ::) )
  • 1/16 tsp Propioni
It smells great! Waiting 'til Halloween.

What damage have I done with a little extra LH? I intended 1/12 tsp.

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2011, 07:07:54 AM »
Secondly, does either seem reasonable:  1/8 tsp MM100, 1/32 LM57, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii; or 1/8 Aromatic B, 1/16 LH, 1/16 ST, 1/32 P. shermanii?
My second Beaufort had:
  • 1/8 tsp Aromatic B
  • 1/16 tsp Thermo TA
  • 3/16 tsp LH (a slight mismeasurement  ::) )
  • 1/16 tsp Propioni
It smells great! Waiting 'til Halloween.

What damage have I done with a little extra LH? I intended 1/12 tsp.

-Boofer-

Thanks, Boofer.  I love Beaufort, and the only reason I've held off is because I'm so new to cheesemaking in general, so was concentrating on the tommes; but this is too good to avoid.   

Further discussions with Pav have led me to look more closely at Alpine styles in general, and the symbiotic and proteolytic qualities of the thermophilic species' more closely.  Based on our exchange, doing some thoughts on incorporating some L. delbrueckii, along with the LH.  He indicates this is commonly found in emmenthaler (and I read some research along this way, after our discussion).  Waiting for further discussion to see of the role of delbrueckii, if any, as an interesting component in Beaufort.  Sailor - you've any thoughts?
- Paul

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2011, 05:19:56 PM »
(Sailor or Pav, if you happen to see this).

Finished the make just a bit ago and shortly into my main press.  A few questions. 

Sailor, you mention soaking the cheesecloth in pH-balanced whey.  As is my custom, I used cheesecloth only for the first few rounds of flipping, which in this case constitutes 2 hours and a graduated psi from .5-3PSI.  It occurs to me the acidification curve you and Pav discuss may mean I might have an issue over the next several hours, as the cheese acidifies, if using just a straight hoop and follower (although I must say, unless I've spaced, I can't see that substantial a difference in pH drop between the tommes, and this cheese....this one went into the press at 6.56, pretty close to like my tommes). 

Secondly, for the tommes, I was maintaining a 21-22% brine.  This make represents the first brine with full-strength whey (previously, it was runoff from washed curds), so I'm making a fresh brine (didn't really want to use the old brine, as it hasn't been touched since my last tomme make of 2/11).  Any reason why one couldn't just use a saturated brine, for these beauforts?

Thirdly, from reading the thread, my understanding is that the propionic eye formation is inhibited in part due to the lack of a warming period, and the relatively higher salt concentration, when compared to, e.g., emmenthaler. 

I haven't weighed it yet, but estimate I will get about 4 1/2 lbs out of this make.  Given that, I was a bit puzzled by the 6-8 hours brine period you mention, Sailor - I would have thought this cheese could use a more substantial salt dosing, given the above, and previously I was doing 3 1/2 hours or so per pound of tomme.  Is this due to the extended aging, and is this common for all cheeses aged this long? 

Finally, Sailor, I note you mention to cool the cheese down in the hoop for 24 hours, prior to placing in the brine.  Would cooling in my normal cave condition - 52-55F, 89-92%RH - be appropriate for this pre-brine period? 

Many thanks.  So far, very happy with the results - and Boofer, the press is performing like a champ!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 05:28:57 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2011, 08:23:45 PM »
Arn - Cheesecloth sticking is most problematic with themo cheeses about 2-4 hours into pressing as the TA kicks in and the pH drops.

A pH of 6.56 at hooping is WAY off target. You should have that or lower at renneting. So something is wrong with either your procedures or your pH meter. Perhaps that's a typo???

Propionic is very salt sensitive.  I cool at room temp. Brining for 6-8 hours depends on the size of your wheel. I use a saturated brine at 3 hours a pound.
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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2011, 09:01:10 PM »
Thanks, Sailor.  First of all, no, I don't have much faith in the meter.  Secondly, the milk came in at 6.72, and after an hour of ripening, I was at 6.60. 

Based on the 1.2 point drop (and following on the heels of some comments by Pav and yourself in this thread, on meso metabolism and lysis), I added rennet at 6.60. 

Floc time was 20 minutes (shot for a longer floc, so went towards the low end of 7-10 ml/100lbs measure, using 3.2ml/5 gallons). 

I don't know why it is, but with every make so far, even with primer culture, aside from the initial drop from ripening culture, I won't see much change in readings - until a precipitous crash, not long into the main press, which is almost assuredly wrong.  So, I don't know. 

After 2 hours post-culture addition (1 hour ripening, 1 hour renneting), my meter had gone from 6.72 to 6.56.  I took no further measurements after cutting, as I've had such lousy luck in the past getting what seems like a reasonable reading.

I've got some issues with cutting and stirring, breaking up too much of the "orderly" cubes into irregular grains - something I've raised with Pav, separately.  That said, the wheel is the smoothest knit I've yet had (in no small measure, I'm sure, from the pre-press under warm-warm/hot whey, and the higher psi).  I will take one more reading at the end of 8 hours; this time, I just decided to let it go to time, as opposed to depending on this - likely very flawed - meter. 

Thanks on all the info, otherwise, as well.  Very helpful.

Paul
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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2011, 10:54:30 PM »
Further to the above:  I decided to balance the whey brine tonight.  It has been cooling downstairs, in the cellar, and is currently at 76F.  I 2-point calibrated the pH meter, rinsed with d.i...and after 5 hours cooling down from make temp to 76F, the whey is at a magical 3.92 pH. 

While I understand the value of going on sensory learning, the only way I know to be able to replicate to any degree of surety is to know where I am, and what I can expect, at any one of several stages, with trustworthy equipment. 

I've had it with this meter; I'm calling Extech tomorrow.
- Paul

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2011, 09:02:20 AM »
I've had it with this meter; I'm calling Extech tomorrow.
I feel your pain.
I've gradually moved in the direction iratherfly suggested...get in touch with the milk-curds-cheese and develop a feel for what it's doing and what you're doing. I know you're doing that. I'm trying my best to do that and, in limited fashion, am having some success, I feel. It's tough, this learning thing.  ;)

the whey is at a magical 3.92 pH. 
Wow, that beats my lowest! I guess you're the winner.  :o

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2011, 09:16:58 AM »
I've had it with this meter; I'm calling Extech tomorrow.
I feel your pain.
I've gradually moved in the direction iratherfly suggested...get in touch with the milk-curds-cheese and develop a feel for what it's doing and what you're doing. I know you're doing that. I'm trying my best to do that and, in limited fashion, am having some success, I feel. It's tough, this learning thing.  ;)

the whey is at a magical 3.92 pH. 
Wow, that beats my lowest! I guess you're the winner.  :o

-Boofer-

Lol - well, if the magically aggressive whey drop was all, I'd be....more rested today.  This was a learning curve beaufort, to be sure.  Beside the pH issues, woke up at 1:30 a.m. (8 hours of pressing ended 1:40 a.m.) to remove from the press - and discovered that my assembly of 3 weights - a 5,  2 1/2 and 1 1/2 - had decided to get cozy with the pulley rope, and held it tightly between them. 

Being with me through the construction, and knowing my level of carpentry skills, I believe the weights were afraid they'd die an ignoble death, all alone, in the middle of the night.  So they clung tightly to the rope. 

When I went to release the hoop, I noticed...unhinged the weight stack and felt the sinking feeling of creaking, indicating the wheel could have been pressed at its proper psi.  At 8 hours, disgusted as I was with the pH meter,*** I felt obliged to simply go by time on the press, and hope for the best.  The wheel is sitting clothbound in the hoop at room temp, until tonight. (Sailor, when you indicate to leave in hoop, I hope that meant just remove it from the press, leave it intact cheesecloth and all, and allow to rest and cool as is).

By the way, I've seen some variations on this  - apparently, among the alpines, beaufort is usually brined, but it's not unheard of for the wheel to get a salt rub, over a brine; and though many just use saturated brine for wash, some do use a high-salt b. linens wash (6-10% salt; one I know of, uses a standard 3% b. linens wash daily for about a month). 

So, toying with foregoing altogether a brine for this one, as an experiment, and then doing the b. linens wash.  Any thoughts, anyone?

Live and learn.  4th wheel down.  Tommes are progressing, though slowly.  Some helpful suggestions by Pav, and I am seeing the first signs of b. linens and other growth on all 3 tommes, so I've my hopes up.  I say that gingerly.

Paul

***I really don't even know whether to trust the brine I made up - I adjusted with baking soda, to 5.2, but I'm almost certain that's now too high, as I'm almost certain the "3.92" was way off; bad feeling I'm going to have to toss this beautiful whey-brine, and just make up a water one with standard additions, without measurement.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 09:23:23 AM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

Offline george (MaryJ)

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2011, 09:57:07 AM »
Quote
I say that gingerly.

Perhaps your next trick should be a ginger Stilton, a la Sailor?

*runs*
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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2011, 01:50:47 PM »
Well, gave it a go.  Thanks, Pav, for your additional help.  Wheel came in just past my predicted amount, 4 lbs., 10.8 oz.  Cheesecloth came off OK - but noticed something that seemed a bit weird (at least, to me, as I've never seen this).  Smooth wheel, no openings - but what looked like a few fine, definitely red streaks, here and there - like microsurgical-thin, filamentous, embedded in the rind?  Any thoughts? (Come hell or high water, I'm aging this 8-12 months, so plan to kill off whatever foul beastie may have wanted to curse this first, rather difficult alpine-style learning curve). 

As a final cap on this meter, going on some of Pav's suggestions, just tasted the whey brine for sourness.  Slightly so, I added some vinegar.  The brine prior to the vinegar addition measured 5.32.  After the vinegar addition, 5.40.  So yep, a fine instrument, couldn't be happier at this point.

Edit:  If I'm been unhappy with this meter, I want to give credit to the company for standing by its customers - like many have said, if they've had problems with the meter, like them. I have nothing but good things to say about the customer service and company in its attitude this way. 

I contacted them, explained the situation, gave them the history, and they are shipping me a brand new instrument - don't even have to return the old one.  This means a good deal to me, in my view of dealing with companies.  Let's hope second time's the charm.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 02:17:14 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul