Author Topic: Beaufort Recipe  (Read 6919 times)

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2014, 11:21:47 AM »
You should review my post of 3/6/2011 above.

As I have said in other posts, I do not believe in mixing MCs with DVI unless there is something, like P. shermanii, that cannot be maintained as a MC. That being said, you would always want to favor the meso for MC because that is what is going to contribute first and most to acid production. Then, when you heat the curds to thermo temperatures, you are going to kill most of the Mesos anyway. Even then, the dead mesos will release enzymes that will contribute to later aging.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
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Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2014, 11:30:44 AM »
Sailor, thanks. 

Just to clarify, I might be misunderstanding what you mean when you say you don't like mixing meso and thermo MCs.  I thought you meant, you don't like mixing a starter culture that is a blend of meso's, thermo's.  For instance, MA4001 would be a poor candidate, because its inevitable that you would be screwing up the ratios when culturing up a blended starter. 

Do you mean, you don't like mixing MCs in a vat - as in a meso MC (MA011), and a separate MC (ST), added in together? Or, if you're really inspired, culturing up 3 separate MCs, MA011, ST, LH100, and adding them in together.  Multiple mother cultures, inoculated separately, in other words?
- Paul

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2014, 01:00:56 PM »
We use culture mixes all the time. But in any given make, I don't believe in using MCs for one type of culture and DVIs for another. I would use all MCs or all DVIs.

"Really inspired" is exactly what we do - multiple MCs. One for meso, a second for TA-61 (ST), and a 3rd for LH-100. For different types of cheese, we use different ratios of TA-61 and LH-100 so a blended MC does not do what we want.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
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Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2014, 01:09:08 PM »
Oh, gotcha.  Thanks, Sailor.
- Paul

Offline elkato

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2014, 01:56:18 PM »
Sailor,
Do you think that choozit Alp alone can substitute the MA11, TAO60, LH100 mix in this recipe, and if not could you be so kind as to give me an amount of each of the cultures in the mix for a 100Lt make, and the PH targets?
thanks in advance for all of your help
Luis.


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Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2014, 10:06:36 PM »
The Alp cannot be maintained as a Mother Culture because the ratios would be WAY out of balance. It is not possible to give you an amount of each culture to match that mix. Every manufacturer has their own proprietary blend. The exact bacteria that you use and the pH targets are personal preferences. The advantage of using a Mother Culture is that you can make small adjustments to your bacterial mix to fit your needs. That's what makes it "your" cheese.
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
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Offline elkato

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2014, 10:44:50 AM »
 I don't use MC, I use powder DVI, but I have found the answer to my question reading carefully your entire post (this will teach me to do so)
Thanks Sailor

Paul tank you very much for your PM which was very helpful!!
Luis.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 10:14:50 AM by elkato »

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2014, 07:59:53 PM »

So during the make, TA acidifies. The meso cocci add some flavor during affinage, and LH acts are the main agent that leads to flavor and paste formation. No time to post recipe right now; so much stuff is in my notes or my head, but I'm trying to go through it all. It's pretty similar to sailor's.

Hi Pav.  This is an old thread but I just wanted to thank you for this information!  That is the best explanation I have had for why mesos play a role in a thermo cheese!  Very succinctly put.  I have been searching for an answer to this for a long time.

NV.

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2014, 08:02:40 PM »
In this case, dominant doesn't mean quantity. Both cultures are active early on and usually facilitate a faster initial pH drop. I feel that the Meso is the dominant player in the beginning, although both are working hard. However, when you heat to 128F you kill off or deactivate many of the Meso bacteria. Now the Thermo is clearly dominant and continues the acidification thru pressing and brining. Meanwhile three things happen with the Meso culture. First, there is a well documented symbiotic relationship with the Thermo that enhances the whole make process. Second - some do survive and continue doing their thing. Third, the dead ones become part of the proteolytic process much earlier than normal in the affinage process. They release enzymes and provide a complex mix of flavors to the finished cheese. This early die off and proteolysis means that the cheese will also mature faster than a pure Meso cheese. Ironically, as LB pointed out, raw milk contains natural meso bacteria anyway and is one of many reasons that raw usually produces more complex and flavorful cheese.

Some award winning Cheddars for example are quietly being made by taking advantage of the meso/thermo symbiosis to produce more complex flavors with a much shorter affinage. Imagine getting the texture and flavor of a two year old cheddar within 8 or 9 months. Makes for better cheese and a better bottom line. That's probably why you don't see any recipes or many articles talking about this. The exact culture mixes and techniques are being carefully guarded. But I'm sure LB knows...... Ta Da........ (what a segueway)......

Likewise Sailor, an excellent post. Thanks for helping me to get my head around this stuff and thanks for being so generous with your knowledge.  One day I hope I can pass it on...