Author Topic: Beaufort Recipe  (Read 7731 times)

Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 08:44:24 AM »
Sailor, Just want to thank you for the recipe, thoughts and technique. It has been a while since I have visited the forum or even made cheese for that matter but I have learned a lot from reading the dialogue in this thread. Wondering if you have had the chance to cut this cheese yet or is it still in the aging stage?

I would like to try and get a few cheeses made this fall before the animals come off pasture and would like to give your Beaufort a go

Again thanks

Reg
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Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 10:29:35 AM »
Beaufort is one of my favorite cheeses and very well received by the English crowd in town.
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Offline FarmerJD

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2010, 01:56:16 PM »
Reg, good to have you back. Read alot of your old posts.

Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 08:13:59 AM »
Sailor, yes I bet Beaufort is VERY well recieved. I'm a big fan of the Alpine types of cheese both for eating and cooking with, they are very smooth in just about any sauce.

Farmer, it is good to get back and read some of the posts, it has been a long time since I have been here. Like most others time is very limited but hopefully that will change as I'm going into semi retirement, well hopefully

Been looking for a post by Tea so I can say hello to her and to John. Man this forum has sure changed over the past few years
reg

Offline Boofer

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 10:01:30 AM »
Good to have you back, reg. I'd love to follow your progress with your Beaufort.

As we move more into the cooler months, I want to do some alpines, including my Beaufort retry.

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Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 07:59:13 AM »
Question that maybe Sailor or linuxboy can answer and I'm not sure this will work or not but it has been on my mind for a few years now. If I were to caramelize a quart or two of either cream or milk and add that into my batch do you think that may throw off the entire process ?

We do know that UP milk is not good for cheese making but what do you think the effect would be by adding a small portion of cooked product to the overall make

Reg
reg

Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2010, 08:37:13 AM »
My first impressions is that the high temperatures would destroy the calcium and make it unfit for cheesemaking, just like ultrapasteurizing. That may in part depend on the source of your cream and the kind of milk that you are using. Store bought is generally UHT anyway. That might also depend on the degree of caramelization. Experimentation is good. Give it a go and let us know what happens. You won't have to wait until the cheese ages because you will see the effects during curd set. I would definitely use CaCl2. Interesting idea.

Not sure what your intent is, but an alternative would be to add the caramelized cream after you cut the curds. The cream wouldn't be integrated into the calcium matrix, but the caramelized particles will stay with the curd mass and won't be drained or pressed out. So, it would still pick up the flavor.
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Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 10:23:46 AM »
Thanks for a very quick reply Sailor. This is an idea that I have been contemplating for quite a while, any and all imput is appreciated thats for sure. You may have hit the nail on the head with the idea of adding the caramelized cream after the set and before pressing, yes this makes sense to me now.

I have played with the idea of caramelized cream before with the additions of the herbs that grow naturally in the Alps regions (Switzerland-France-Italy) to try and get some of the original flavours from the different grasses and herbs that grow wild there. Lavender in small amounts was a good fit.

Not sure I will get to this until everything is clear in my very clouded mind

Reg
reg

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2010, 10:29:22 AM »
If I were to caramelize a quart or two of either cream or milk and add that into my batch do you think that may throw off the entire process ?

We do know that UP milk is not good for cheese making but what do you think the effect would be by adding a small portion of cooked product to the overall make

Your curds will not set if you add too much. I have tried this for a gouda concept I had when I wanted accelerated flavor development. What does work is if you carmelize pure lactose and add that. Carmelizing glucose and fructose doesn't work as well because you invite yeast contamination with that approach. Adding carmelized milk is about the same as adding cream. When you add cream, it doesn't make curd stronger, but weaker. And as Sailor and I both have discussed in some previous threads, the PF ratio is very important if you want to target a cheese style. What happens with the carmelized milk is that the proteins are all wacky (denatured), so they will not bond and will not help form a gel. Rather, they will be kind of like fat particles, just suspended in place by the casein matrix. And if you have too many, the gel matrix cannot hold. And then mere anarchy will be loosed upon the world :)

Sailor's idea is good, but IMHO if you're really just flavoring the cheese with caramel, then add straight caramel.
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Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2010, 11:14:23 AM »
linuxboy, your words of wisdom also make a lot of sense and I can clearly see that there will be a binding problem after the milk protein has been denatured, yes would not work because of the amount required to do what I was intending it to do. Another strategy is in order, no question

caramelized milk is totally different in taste and texture than that of streight caramel (sugar and water cooked). I wanted to stay strictly dairy here and did like the flavour profile that the caramelized cream and lavender brought to the party. Looking at photos of those big copper caldrons and wood fired heat may have warped my mind but that is what I seen when first looking at the process. This will be a 'work in process' for sure

Reg
reg


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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2010, 03:00:50 PM »
You could do it, reg, in moderation. I did okay with gouda, PF 1.1 and then adjusted with about 6 ounces carmelized milk per gallon. The curds set, the flavor was interesting, something I haven't done since because I had no time.

I see your point on the carmelized lactose vs milk.
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Offline reg

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2010, 09:14:16 AM »
That is good news linuxboy, 6oz per gallon may be enough for the flavour I'm thinking about. Don't want to go to far, just have enough to flavour without taking away from the original Alpine style cheese.

Time ??? yes I hear you

Thanks for all the help

Reg
reg

Offline ArnaudForestier

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2011, 09:53:53 AM »
Just a query in terms of main cultures; I've MM100, and Thermo C, as well as MA4001.  Would MA4001, ThermoC be a couple of good choices here, as well? 



« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 12:20:50 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

Offline ArnaudForestier

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2011, 12:21:00 PM »
It seems the MA001 is discontinued; the only difference, as I can see it, between the MM100 and MA19 is the diacetylis in the former (however, not sure of the ratio differences).  Thermo C contains both S. thermophilus, and L. helveticus.  It lacks LH100's L. lactis.

Can someone discuss substitutions, here?  Would one expect more "buttery" notes than desired in a Beaufort, if using MM100, and what the lack of L. lactis would mean, if using Thermo C instead of LH?  Basically, among 4001, Thermo C, and MM100, curious on what using some combination of these would mean. 

Also, Pav, you like to use some FD, allow to ripen for an hour, then heat.  Do you mean, you ripen 1 hour, get your normal ΔpH, rennet, floc, etc., then heat?

Finally, I note Sailor you indicate "AT LEAST 80%RH."  I've the one cave, that rests 88-90%.  Doable, yes?
- Paul

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Beaufort Recipe
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2011, 02:44:18 PM »
Quote
Would one expect more "buttery" notes than desired in a Beaufort, if using MM100, and what the lack of L. lactis would mean, if using Thermo C instead of LH?  Basically, among 4001, Thermo C, and MM100, curious on what using some combination of these would mean. 

I'm not even sure where to begin. The biochemistry of ripening is really complex, it's somewhat hard to generalize.

Buttery notes have to do with diacetyl, which thermos generally do not produce. Also, the fat content, fat type, and amount of lipase in the milk. MM100 would not give you more butter notes. L lactis is a synergistic helper acidifier, it tends to add a well-roundedness without excess proteolysis.

Quote
Do you mean, you ripen 1 hour, get your normal ΔpH, rennet, floc, etc., then heat?
I use it to replicate evening milk that has been preripened. There's a trend to use L Lactis for beaufort, emmenthaler, and similar cheese, to ripen the evening milk a little. I prefer FD. I don't watch the pH change at all with FD, it's strictly a time-based addition. I don't use it for acidity in beaufort. I use ST for acidity and to a degree, LH.

Yes, you're fine at that RH. If you read more in the thread, Sailor and I discuss the RH levels and how 80% is the absolute lowest, preferably 90%
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