Author Topic: Books- Recipes with ph markers  (Read 4039 times)

homeacremom

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Books- Recipes with ph markers
« on: April 01, 2010, 11:09:54 PM »
I'm sure there are a couple good cheesemaking books out there. Which have recipes including ph markers?

Cheese Head

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2010, 01:53:15 AM »
H.A.M.

Sadly none that I've heard of, so best source I think is this forum, the CHR Hansens Guides, or Peter Dixon's website.

linuxboy

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2010, 02:16:09 AM »
I know a big deal has been made out of pH, and rightly so. It's a very useful indicator. But the truth is that there are many valid pH ranges for a cheese style and that pH is an indicator of what's going on underneath the surface. The truth is that for just about all cheeses, there are 3-4 valid ranges for the critical points, and its important to know what they are and more importantly what they represent. Time is also important, so is temp. pH is more useful as an indicator for when something has gone wrong and needs adjustment for the final recipe, and as a quality control point. It shouldn't be used as a sole criterion for making decisions.

In general, when using a standard 1 U/DCU per 50 liters:

The pH at adding rennet should be about 6.5. Normally, it will be around here anyway, unless your milk is off. Very fresh milk may be slightly higher. Goat's milk may be slightly lower.

The pH at draining whey varies with the cheese style. For cheeses that have a high final calcium content, and very little micelle degredation, the pH is 6.2-6.4. These cheeses are the alpines and high heat thermophilic. They also include tommes.  For cheeses that have moderate calcium content, this is the vast majority of cheese, the pH range should be 6.0-6.25. This is when you should drain whey and start packing the curds together, either under the whey, or in the mold. Typically, you want a moderate amount of calcium content so the curds fuse together well. For ladled cheeses, like brie, same thing, you "drain" at 6.0-6.1.

Next key aspect is the pH at salting or brining or other action. This should just about always be 5.4. The exception are lactic cheeses and cheeses that need lactic acid to feed mold, like bries and blues. You mill and salt cheddar at 5.4. You brine a tomme at 5.4. The 5.4 is important because it represents the point where a moderate amount of acidity has built up. You need this acid to help preserve the cheese, for the cheese body, for proteolysis, etc.

Last aspect is more of an aside, and it is pH at finish, right out of the mold. For lactic and blue/brie, this should be 4.6-4.8. It should be that because this is the point where milk precipitates and all the charge on the micelles has been neutralized. This means enough acid has been built up to ensure the cheese ages properly and the mold eats the lactic acid evenly, not forming too dry or too liquified of areas.

The drain pH influences the final pH, because at drain you are removing easily available lactose, yet some lactose is trapped in the curd.

If you need pH numbers for a recipe, just post. But for all the talk about pHs importance, it's more important to pay  attention to the key tipping points I just wrote about. I've posted before more about the science and what happens at those tipping points if you want to read more.

Amatolman

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 03:24:04 AM »
H.A.M.

Sadly none that I've heard of, so best source I think is this forum, the CHR Hansens Guides, or Peter Dixon's website.



I had not come across the CHR Hansens Guides yet. Thanks for that John!

Brie

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 03:53:20 AM »
Thanks CH--I've never seen these guides before either--very helpful!

homeacremom

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 11:20:23 PM »
Excellent! Thank-you so much.
 Yes, it's the science I'm trying to understand and what the ph adds to understanding what's happening in the pot.  It sure helped me figure out pasta filata cheeses! I just thought there would be a bigger difference  in ideal markers from type to type.

linuxboy

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 12:06:34 AM »
There are rather big differences in the types of cheeses. A cheddar is different from an alpine is different from a lactic or semi-lactic curd. But within the styles it's the milk, temp, culture selection, and affinage that influence cheese the most. Do you have any specific questions regarding the science and how pH affects things?

homeacremom

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 03:13:38 AM »
I'm sure I'll have more specific questions in a few weeks.  My cheese cave had to be replaced so I've only done fresh cheeses so far this year. I'm about to wean another group of goat kids, and will really be into the hard cheeses then!

I thought maybe there would be a book with recipes to just read and glean a feel for what differences within the styles of cheeses. I think I'm underestimating the differences a few degrees, a different pressing weight, etc. make in the final texture of a cheese. Flavor is not as hard for me to achieve as the mouth feel/texture.

One question right now and one I hoped to find an answer to in some book....what makes the difference between an "American style" milder, softer cheddar and the drier, flakier English cheddar? I'm working with raw goat milk from standard Swiss breeds in 4-5 gallon batches. I cheddar by hanging the curd in bags over a small amount of whey in an insulated pot.  A sort of farmhouse cheddar I guess. I can make slices, it's just a tad drier than I would like for some wheels and doesn't melt like I expected.

Using flocculation  and multipliers made a HUGE difference in my cheddars. The recipe I was using was double the rennet I actually needed, and time to cutting was basically doubled as well. What a huge difference! All the bitterness is gone! One more wheel still unopened made in November. I need to make alot more this year so I can leave some of it to age longer.   ;D

linuxboy

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 05:12:00 AM »
American style commercial cheddars are made in a similar way, except milk is standardized, and the 40-lb blocks are aged rindless, sealed in a vacuum bag. The rennet selections are also sometimes different. Overall, commercial cheddars in the US are engineered to fit a specific flavor profile.

The moisture content difference is more of a function of maturation than anything else. There's no moisture loss in a bag. I've had some American flaky, drier cheddars done by artisans, so it's not like the style is restricted to the other side of the pond.

scubagirlwonder

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Re: Books- Recipes with ph markers
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2010, 09:07:10 PM »
I know a big deal has been made out of pH, and rightly so. It's a very useful indicator. But the truth is that there are many valid pH ranges for a cheese style and that pH is an indicator of what's going on underneath the surface. The truth is that for just about all cheeses, there are 3-4 valid ranges for the critical points, and its important to know what they are and more importantly what they represent. Time is also important, so is temp. pH is more useful as an indicator for when something has gone wrong and needs adjustment for the final recipe, and as a quality control point. It shouldn't be used as a sole criterion for making decisions......

LB, thank you so much for all the valuable info in this  post! Would you happen to have put together a chart with the pH ranges for different styles of cheeses during their stages of cheese making? I understand that all cheeses will have different pH ranges during the cheese making process, but I guess what I am looking for is a "quick reference guide" that I can refer to when I am making various cheeses to just get the basic range I should expect to find...I have had so many failures with cheeses ( I think they were all terribly acidic, and had an inedible bitter flavor and chalky texture) , that I am about to throw in the towel with the whole cheese making thing...but I am going to give it another go and have picked up a pH meter, so any help would be appreciated....If you have any recipes you'd be willing to share I would love to give them a try. (you're welcome to PM me) I would like to make some *good* cheeses for Christmas gift baskets! Thanks!