Cheddar flocculation terribly long

[Alex]

I am trying to make a cheddar right now.
1) 9.5 liters raw cows milk @ 22 deg C + annatto + 10 ts of buttermilk left for 45 minutes.
2) heated to 30 deg C, added 12 drops veg rennet (1 drop/1 liter of milk, manufacturer's instruction).
Flocculation took 58 minutes. Now I'm in the 116 minutes additional time (x3).

Just before the Chaddar, I made successfully 2 Cams from the same milk/buttermilk/enzyme.

Any opinion will be appreciated.

[Sailor Con Queso]

One drop per liter seems a little low to me, but I don't use veg rennet. I use 1/2 tsp of calf rennet for 5 gallons. If it hasn't floculated after 20 minutes, I would add another equal dose of rennet.

[Alex]

This is my routine procedure with same ingredients. Letting the milk with the buttermilk to acidify, is not routine, relativley at low temp - 21 deg C. As I mentioned, a couple of hours before, I made Cams with the very same ingredients but without acidification and at higher temp. Everything went fine.

[Alex]

Well, after 174 minutes of coagulation I cut the coagulum, the curds were fine. Proceeding with the recipe I came to the cheddarring, and after 75 minutes of testing acidification by heating and trying to stretch a piece of curd, I gave up, the curd didn't stretch. It was well after midnight, because of the very long coagulation period, so I put the cheese in the press. Now it is drying, it looks good, it feels good. Although it might not be a genuine Cheddar, I am sure it will be eaten. Today or tomorrow I'll wax it.

[DeejayDebi]

... I came to the cheddarring, and after 75 minutes of testing acidification by heating and trying to stretch a piece of curd, I gave up, the curd didn't stretch.

I use veggie rennet a good bit becuase I can get it locally. Double strength though. That is a long time.

You don't stretch Cheddar curds they will break but they don't stretch. Mozzarella and the pasta fillata cheeses stretch though. Cheddar curds will bounce however! Nice looking cheese though.

[Alex]

Debi,

It's mentioned in one of my recipes to make an acidity test (I don't use pH meter) by placing a piece of curd into 82 deg C water and trying to stretch. This should occur at right acidity level. It's some primitive way but it should work I believe.

[linuxboy]

Debi, the old test for when to stop cheddaring is to take a hot iron and put it on a slab of curd, and then remove it. Based on the number of strands, how long they stretch, etc, you can gauge when the acidity is right. This method is rather reliable when done by an experienced cheesemaker. Putting curd into a microwave or hot water and testing for stretch is also not a bad way of doing it. You want to stop cheddaring right at that point, when the micelles have degraded somewhat but not completely - hence the stretch. If your cheddar curd doesn't stretch, acidity may be too low (pH too high), or maybe milk is off or rennet is old? It should stretch by the time you salt.

[Alex]

Linuxboy, I use the same milk and ingredients all the time. The unusual step here was letting the milk with the buttermilk to acidify. May be it got spoiled? That might cause the long flocc time?
My Mozz is stretching very well:

[mtncheesemaker]

That's what I call stretching, Alex!

[justsocat]

Alex.
may be i get something wrong, but i never saw cheddared slabs stretching like a mozz. Is it possible?

[Alex]

Pavel I think that you and may be others were misslead on this thread, as two issues have been mixed.
I think Debi didn't understand my acidity check of the Cheddar. She thought I am trying to stretch the curds like Mozz and other pasta fillata. So I brought some pictures of stretching Mozz. May be John will be willing to delete some pics Just for preventing confusion with the main subject.

I am still not sure whether the 45 minutes rippenning with the buttermilk was necessary and right or not.

[justsocat]

Alex,
I use clabber cultures for all cheeses i make. And i use microbial rennet. In a case of cheddar i found out that 45 min of rippenning time is  that minimum that allows me to get  propper pH level. With one of my culture i wait for an hour. Less rippenning time force me to increase cooking or cheddaring time to hit that pH point.

[FRANCOIS]

This is the advantage of using flocculation and not clean break.  Even when there is something off in the milk (I would suspect Ca or solids here) you will still get good curd out as long as you adhere to your multiplier.

Alex,
That is a reliable test for pH, assuming all things equal.  In a season change, feed change etc, it may not reflect pH levels well.  This is perhaps why it didn't work this time.

[Alex]

Francois,

I can say that the milk I use is a milk with almost the same properties all over the year. Because all the milk produced in Israel, is transferred to the dairies strictly and only through the "Milk Council", all the cows are Holstein's, all the farmers feed them the same food and no grazing. Everything is "engineered" in a way that the milk properties will be affected as little as possible all over the year.

Pavel,

As I use store bought butter milk (containing Streptococcus Lactis, Streptococcus Diacetylactis, Streptococcus Cremoris), same brand all the time and I never let the milk ripening with the culture, I was wandering if it was correct to do that for the Cheddar.

[justsocat]

Alex,
i'm far not an expert. I'm still searching for my own way to make cheddar