Vat, Stockpot - Heating With Hot Water From Solar > Gas

[humble_servant7]

Good post, Sailor!

[BigCheese]

Thanks, Sailor,

Those are good thoughts. I don't think I have the $ right now, but you can heat water pretty good with a coil of black polyethelene pipe on the roof. That might be a good way to go...

I am thinking though what if I just had a good way to agitate my water bath (with direct heat underneath). Like what about a tube with air flowing into the water making bubbles and stirring things up?

[Sailor Con Queso]

The pipe certainly gets hot enough but you need the volume and circulation that a tank would provide.

I used to build solar heated houses. I produced hot water on the roof in solar panels and circulated it through copper pipes integrated into the concrete floor in the basement. All it needed was a consistent supply of "warm" water to bring the concrete slab up to 68F. The massive thermal mass in the concrete would "radiate" heat for days with just a little recharging every now and then. And at 68F it would not overheat if there was a sudden warm spell. Any excess from the roof was diverted for dometic hot water use. I built 52 houses like this and they are all still working like a charm. The only moving part is the pump, which is easy to replace.

[FarmerJd]

Sailor, I have often dreamed of putting a very similar concept in place. Great idea. Amazing that it is not more prevalent considering the cost efficiency.


I also want to make a point about the water in the heating tank or water jacket of the double broiler setup. If you are stirring the milk in the main pot, there is very little reason to circulate the water. For two reasons:


1. If the water is being heated from the bottom, it will rise (because it becomes less dense) and create convection currents that will circulate as effectively as any other method. Just drop a little food color in and watch. If you were heating from the top it might be a problem, but definitely not from the bottom.


2. The milk is also absorbing the heat as well and then distributing it throughout itself as you stir so there is a constant flow of heat by conduction from the water underneath, through the pot, to the milk, where it is distributed and then it moves back to the water if there is colder water somewhere in the outside container. By this stirring of the milk there is a kind of equalization of the temp overall. My water tank stays at the same temp throughout with no circulation and a 2500w element on the bottom.


Just a personal observation. Next to newton's laws, my favorite subject was thermodynamics. 

[humble_servant7]

Sailor, I have often dreamed of putting a very similar concept in place. Great idea. Amazing that it is not more prevalent considering the cost efficiency.


I also want to make a point about the water in the heating tank or water jacket of the double broiler setup. If you are stirring the milk in the main pot, there is very little reason to circulate the water. For two reasons:


1. If the water is being heated from the bottom, it will rise (because it becomes less dense) and create convection currents that will circulate as effectively as any other method. Just drop a little food color in and watch. If you were heating from the top it might be a problem, but definitely not from the bottom.


2. The milk is also absorbing the heat as well and then distributing it throughout itself as you stir so there is a constant flow of heat by conduction from the water underneath, through the pot, to the milk, where it is distributed and then it moves back to the water if there is colder water somewhere in the outside container. By this stirring of the milk there is a kind of equalization of the temp overall. My water tank stays at the same temp throughout with no circulation and a 2500w element on the bottom.


Just a personal observation. Next to newton's laws, my favorite subject was thermodynamics. 

Great post!!

[Sailor Con Queso]

JD - Radiant slab heat is unbelievably efficient. Every home in the country should be built that way. (a long discussion).

You are using direct heating with an element in your vat. So, I agree. No need for circulation. However, if you are using an external source such as a solar or electric heated hot water tank, then the water must be recirculated to provide fresh hot water as the vat water cools down.

I would run VERY insulated pipe from the tank to the vat. Inside the vat would be a coil of copper tubing to complete the "closed loop". To start, fill the vat up with very hot tap water. The hotter the better because it's going to transfer all that heat to the cold milk anyway. A low flow pump would be turned on/off by a controller with a temperature probe in the vat. The pump would run as needed to provide additional heat. VERY much like what I did with radiant slab heating.

You could also use a double walled kettle and eliminate the need for the copper tubing. I am considering this type of setup in the 40 gallon range.

[DeejayDebi]

Does the hotel pan fit in your sink? I have a very tiny sink and I did a post here a while back just using the sink as the heater. If you get a hose you could just siphon the water out to reheat it if neccesary. I add water heated in a teapot when I need hotter water.

The company I bought mine from did go out of business but if you search for electric chaffing dishes you'll find several. We rigged up vat for a friend making a water pan from a large meat lug and put a nylon threaded ball valve with a hose on the side to drain water. Then just set the hotel pan inside the meat lug. Drain some water heat it on the stove or micro wave then re-add the heated water back to the meat lug. You'll only need a few gallons of heating water that way. She has a well that is always running low so it worked out well. The 8 inch deek hotel pans are hard to find one day they are available the next poof! I only get 7 gallons in mine or I spill to much.

[BigCheese]

Thank you JD and everyone else. But especially JD, because now I feel comfortable proceeding with my setup. I will post some pictures soon. Basically I have what I think is an 11 gallon pot that nests nicely in what I think is a 16.5 gallon pot, leaving about 3 inches below and an inch all around the sides. These pots came from BayouClassic. I will be heating with a BayouClassic heating element (gas), and lo-and-behold, stirring with a 48" BayouClassic paddle, a la Carter.

I abandoned the hotel pan idea and opted instead for custom curd cutters to get the uniform cubes I wanted from the rectangular hotel pans. Silver Solder should be here any day and the curd cutter will begin. Calf due in three weeks, better get everything ready in time...

You are all so helpful. Thank you!

[humble_servant7]

Silver Solder should be here any day and the curd cutter will begin.

Hmmm.. what do you plan on silver soldering?

[BigCheese]

The stainless steel frames...right...?

[FarmerJd]

Basically I have what I think is an 11 gallon pot that nests nicely in what I think is a 16.5 gallon pot, leaving about 3 inches below and an inch all around the sides.

This was almost identical to my original setup. I had a I think a 15 gallon and a 20 gallon and I set the whole thing on the wood stove. My present setup is a little bigger but I have 3 inches below and 2-3 inches on the sides. Good luck with the calf.

[humble_servant7]

The stainless steel frames...right...?

Oh-- okay. i thought you were going to solder the wires. Would've been pretty interesting seeing how they may have turned out.

I may experiement a little and try this myself

[BigCheese]

Oh-- okay. i thought you were going to solder the wires. Would've been pretty interesting seeing how they may have turned out.

I may experiement a little and try this myself

Schwoo... you had me nervous there. No the plan right now is to drill holes and weave the wire through, we will see how it goes.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Stainless is tough to drill.

[BigCheese]

I was worried about that. Have not decided fully on a second approach, perhaps notching, but it has some less-than-ideal aspects. I seem to remember Wayne's cutter was drilled though, (of course he also suspends his pot from the ceiling, so we are clearly not equals...)