Author Topic: No Mold on sides of camembert  (Read 2693 times)

Offline thdewitt

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No Mold on sides of camembert
« on: April 18, 2010, 07:30:04 PM »
OK, so I have a problem.  I made for camemberts and I forgot to salt the sides.  Now the tops and bottoms have a nice bloom of mold, but nothing on the sides.  It has been 9 days.  Will they recover?  CAn I salt the sides now or is it just too late.

Thanks,
Tom


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2010, 08:40:49 PM »
I believe salting cams is because all cheeses need a correct % salt and that it is not to set a fertile ground for the mold but I could be wrong. If it's only 9 days then give them some more time, key is correct humidity and temp.

Offline Alex

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2010, 01:33:22 AM »
Salt is needed to encourage mold growth. I use to salt the curds before draining and transferring into the moulds. Salting at this stage cannot cause any damage, try and tell us about the results :).
Alex-The Cheesepenter

Offline thdewitt

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2010, 11:09:49 AM »
OK, thanks for the advice.  I went ahead and salted the sides.  I thought I would post a picture of what happens when you don't add proper salt to the sides of the cheese.

Tom

Offline Alex

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2010, 11:35:32 AM »
The Cam's look fine, salt the circumference and keep your fingers crossed.
Alex-The Cheesepenter


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Offline The_blue

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 01:49:38 AM »
It's been a week or so...

Did you get mould on the edges?

Offline thdewitt

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 07:22:11 PM »
Yes, I got mold around the edges of my Camemberts.  Once I added the salt the mold came in just a few days.  They looked great.  They have been in my ripening cave since April 9th.  So today, I cut one open.  It was very liquid inside.  The insides just ran out.  Took a taste and they had a good flavor but very strong.  Then I took a second bite and was floored; a huge rush of ammonia.  In my mouth, yuck. 

So I am looking for some guidance.  The Camemberts looked fine.  The mold was perfect.  I think the problem may be the temp that I had them ripening at.  It was 54 degrees.  Is this too warm.  Should I reduce the temperature.  Will that solve the ammonia.  What creates the very runny consistency in the cheese. 

I will post a picture when I get back from my trip.

Tom

Offline Nonius

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 07:39:09 AM »
Hi

It took > 14 days on my first Camemberts to get a very sparse layer of mold (kept in regular fridge (cold: 5-8C) and they were VERY liquid inside once aged. Taste was OK, and all 3 were gone quickly during the next few weeks. (I have to comment our family likes their cams aged till brown and ammonia smell is apparent...)

Then I read the threads here and here that indicate pH better be too low than too high when moving curd to mold, meaning longer ripening times, etc

My second batch was made on 16 April, and I let milk ripen for 90 min @ 30C, rennet @35C, put in molds only after 2.5 hours of start ripening, and salting 7.5h after start. Still no indication of mold today (15 days), but I hope when it will happen it will not be runny like last time.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 07:47:46 AM by Nonius »

Offline Oberhasli

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 01:54:05 PM »
I have never salted the sides of my camembert cheeses and I have always had mold growth on the sides.  I try to use salt very sparingly as I have over salted when I was having a problem with black mold growth.  I now put a pinch of geotrichium in with the pen. candidium and  I don't have that problem any more.
Better to train people and risk they leave,
than do nothing and risk they stay.     Anonymous

Offline iratherfly

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 09:35:46 PM »
I would cut the curd smaller and leave it out to drain longer. I find that a drier curd makes a far better Camembert and stops this liquidiness from happening. The uneven liquid nature outside with unripe inside is due to high temp - think of it like frying vegetable in high heat: burned outside and uncooked inside.

I also have adopted an easy stabilizing practice: I brine the cheese heavy at day 21 - once it reaches maturity. This kills off much of the geo and slows down its re-growth dramatically. Liquid an ammonia be gone.


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Offline Ben

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 11:28:07 PM »
Iratherfly,

By drying out the curds do you mean leaving them on the mat, out of the mold and out of the humidity box?  I notice a lot of moisture on my cams.  They eventually dry out but it takes a few days.  Waiting to box them would help.

Also, Details on the brine please.  Is it a saturated brine and how long do you allow the cams to enjoy their swim at the beach?

Do you also brine the cams to accomplish your initial salting or do you sprinkle it on?

Thanks.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: No Mold on sides of camembert
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 02:33:20 AM »
Hey Ben,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I missed out this post until now.

By drier curd, I mean curd that contains less whey per volume. It gives you  firmer cheese. When you cut curd smaller, you create more walls which whey can come out of per your total volume of curd. This is why, recipes for harder cheese typically require more more cutting and even using whisk. Brie is a moist soft cheese, so the curd is usually ladled and layered. Camembert curd is cut to large cubes and scooped. Hard, dry cheeses like Parmesan require curd that has been cut to the size of rice grains. The problem with Camembert type cheeses is that you ripen the milk for very long time and then rennet it for long time. This apparently changes the cellular structure of the curd and causes it to retain more liquid than similarly cut curd of other cheese which has ripened and renneted half the time. This result in fast maturation outside, slow maturation inside, liquid, ammonia, skin slip.  My practice is to make up for the excess moisture by simply cutting the curd smaller and letting it release more whey. It gives me the moisture that requires an extra 5-7 days to age, but I get nice firm cheese that matures slowly to liquid and the inside will reach maturity before the outside smells like Ammonia and the skin slips.

As for the brine: yes. I salt the cheese when I take it out of the molds (24 hours). In spite of my generous sprinkle, the salt isn't enough; most of it washes off in the osmosis and whey drainage over the next few days. When the cheese is done, it is undersalted. I then dip it in 18% brine (1 cup kosher salt, 4.5 cups filtered water, 1/4 tsp CalCl, up to 1 tsp White Vinegar). I do this for 2.5-3 hours per side, per Lb. If you do this for too long you risk over-salting your cheese and losing the white rind you so beautifully prepared over the past few weeks... Reducing the brine salinity is NOT the answer - most bacteria will survive it if its below 16% (in fact you may encourage the growth of unwanted bacteria). This will take a bit of practice until you feel that you got it right. This has extended the shelf lives of my cheeses by more than a month! Ut also have a side effect of slightly hardening the rind and locking more moisture in.

Send me a message if you need more help with this!