Goat's Milk - Raw vs Pasteurized For Cheese Making?

[sburt42]

Which is better to use when making cheese.  RAW or pasteurized milk.  I am just starting with soft cheeses, but want to making different kinds of cheeses later on.  Any feedback would be great.

Thanks,

sburt42

[MarkShelton]

Soft cheeses tend to be eaten quickly, so for safety reasons, use pasteurized. Hard cheeses, and any other cheese that will be aged for more than 60 days will be much better if you make them with raw milk.

The simple reason is: after 60 days, pathogens such as e-coli or listeria will be not be able to survive at the pH (acidity) of cheese. In cheeses less than 60 days that are made with raw milk, these pathogens may still be living and able to cause illness, possibly severe.

If you have access to raw milk though, just pasteurize yourself for cheeses that will be eaten in less than 60 days, and you will have a much better starting point than using store bought pasteurized milk. I don't know the specific temperature off hand, but its basically just heating the milk to about 165 F and holding it there for a few minutes. Check some of the other threads for specifics on pasteurizing.

[homeacremom]

Are you producing your own raw milk?

I do, and know the health and sanitation status of the milk and herd and also the immune  strengths and weaknesses of my family. For me raw milk and raw milk cheeses are better in flavor, texture, and nutrition, but until you read and research to that conclusion on your own, Mark's suggestions are excellent.

Use the low temp method of pasteurizing  and heat slowly over low heat to preserve flavor as much as possible. Quick temp shifts will cause fatty acid breakdown and the "goaty" flavor many people dislike.

[sburt42]

Thank you both for your input.  And yes H.A.M., we have our own goats milking them twice a day.

[TroyG]

We use raw for all of our cheese, but we have our own herd as well. When we start selling chev to the public in June we will pasteurize it.

[cmharris6002]

I like raw milk for all cheeses aged over 60 days, it allows for more character

[Sailor Con Queso]

Mark, here's something to consider. The pH of most cheeses actually goes UP during the aging process. A cheese might be pH 4.9 right out of the press and be 5.4 a month later. So your comment about pathogens not surviving the acidity is "true" but not entirely "accurate". Otherwise both hard and soft cheeses made from raw milk would be legal to sell right out of the press when the pH is the lowest. Yes, the low pH is not a good environment for pathogens but it doesn't necessarily kill them. It's amazing what conditions bacteria and other microorganisms can survive in.

There are 6 factors that prevent or highly minimize pathogens and spoilage bacteria.

• Good quality clean milk to start with
• Sanitary working conditions and cheese making practises
• Sufficient starter bacteria that will rapidly grow and outcompete the bad stuff
• High fat content. (Skim milk spoils quicker than whole milk)
• An acidic environment that favors lactic bacteria over pathogens and spoilage organisms.
• By 60 days (under debate by the FDA), the starter bacteria gobble up all of the "food" and everything else starves

[luvmygoatsinfrance]

I understand the factors of comtamination of milk and eating cheese before it is mature, but to add to this topic may i say that  i have made hard cheese and eaten all of it within 7 days of making it, because, 1. I am a glutton for cheese, 2. it tasted soooo good, 3. I milked the goat myself, I follow strict proceedures after milking to not have my milk contaminated,  and know just by tasting the milk, that it was ok. [ If I taste the milk soon after filtering that it tastes a little 'goaty' i give it all to the dogs and they love it!]. Since consuming that gorgeous cheese, i have not suffered any problems at all. However, I intend to make a lot of hard cheese during the summer and 'store' them for the winter, this I believe was the original 'point' to making milk into cheese, but also now, my girls are milking really well and I know that shortly in less then 6 months they will 'tail off' a bit and not milk as much as they are doing right now, so making hard cheese is perfect to be able to continue eating cheese all through the winter? what say you?

[MarkShelton]

Welcome to the forum Luv!

If you're strict in your sanitation methods and use milk from your own animals, I don't see any problem with eating your own raw milk cheeses. I am not a milker, though (I don't have any cows, goats, sheep as my landlord probably wouldn't like them in my apartment) so you might want to check with some of the other animal owners for specifics on sanitation if you have any doubts or questions in the milk production category.

The 60 day guideline is based on FDA regulations here in the US that requires raw milk cheeses to be aged for 60 days or more. Since I don't know the dairy farmer that I get milk from that well, I feel safer aging them. I'm not sure what the regulations are in France for selling raw milk cheeses, if there are any, but it doesn't seem like you want to sell your cheeses anyway 

And yes, people found that milk made into cheese lasted longer without going bad, and since this was before refrigeration, it was extremely useful insight to gain. It meant stores of cheese could be saved for when cows weren't producing milk.

[luvmygoatsinfrance]

Hi Mark, thanks for the welcome! have a good day

[JMB]

Having been a family dairy farmer for 20 years and growing up on a dairy I have to say that even under the best of sanitation conditions I would not drink or use raw milk. Granted it has a unique flavor, especially the grass based milking herds and makes great tasty cheese but....  Cheese over 60 days may be another story but I personally know a farmstead cheesemaker with excellent sanitation who made some of his friends very sick on some cheese that was over 90 days. Some friends did not get sick, some tried it a second time and were sick again, depends on your gut. The cheese was tested and came back OK but the theory was there were toxins left behind by the bacteria that had since died.  Just for information purposes my herd somatic cell count is consistently under 75,000 which is excellent and my plate counts are consistently excellent too.  I home pasturized for my family even with great numbers.  Somatic cell counts measure the health of the cow and the milk. Sick cows have high somatic cell counts which most of the time indicate a mastitis infection in the udder and who wants to drink or eat that. It has to be really bad to taste or smell it. This can happen even before the cow starts feeling bad or shows symptoms in the udder, sort of like when you feel sort of cold and achy but are still going along. It works just like when you get a sliver in your finger and it becomes surrounded by white blood cells (pus) to encapsulate and stop the bacteria.  It's gross but the truth.  Plate counts measure the sanitation of the equipment.  If I were purchasing raw milk I would require both of these numbers for the last 12 months from the farm at a minimum.  Even then I know it doesn't take much for a milker to be kicked off by say a new milking heifer in the herd and opps something nasty gets sucked into the system that can't be filtered out.  I understand the curiosity and great flavor of raw milk cheese, I love a grass fed aged cheddar--nothing better in my book.  For me personally it isn't worth the risk of being so sick you want to die or think you will for a week, and how awful if a child, pregnant woman or elder gets that sick.  Talk about feeling totally helpless and responsible. I'm not against raw milk sales, I am for knowledge to make an informed personal decision.
JMB

[TroyG]

This debate has been going on for a long time. I sell over 200 gallons of RAW milk every month (We are licensed) and produce a lot of cheese. All the cheese we eat is made from raw milk....even the fresh cheese.  I have experienced what it can do for people and will always provide RAW milk to those that request it. We have women feeding it to their infants and that is why we test our animals twice per month. I have not been sick in years! I watch co-workers get sick and tell them drink goat milk! 

Just as you mentioned people say oh no raw can make you sick! You could die! Well the truth is you can get sick from pasteurized milk as well. Difference is at least my immune system will be used to raw milk and have a better chance of handling whatever bacteria is thrown my way.  After seeing what goes on in a couple commercial dairies I will never drink milk from the store again. I don't care if it is even Ultra Pasteurized. Yuk!

In closing I will add........I am not saying you are wrong, just that it is a personal preference. There are good and bad to everything.