Author Topic: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break  (Read 7702 times)

Offline DennisZ

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As you might guess I'm new to all this, and here's the thing I have tossed two gallons of store bought milk in two botched attempts. I am following to recipe for Cheddar and I have not had any coagulation of any kind. I made sure the milk is NOT ultra pasteurized and that it's Not 2% or 1% it's "full cream" I guess. I also followed the recipe for a buttermilk starter culture and now I am using what I froze in a clean ice cube tray, and yes I thaw it first. Is there any hope .........   lol

Thanks in advance   :o


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Offline MarkShelton

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2010, 09:05:03 PM »
I've never used Junket rennet, I've never even seen it, but from what I've heard, it is acceptable for soft cheeses, but won't work well for hard cheeses. For cheddar, its best to get rennet from a cheesemaking supply store.
I am constantly in awe of the very first people that consumed these things, despite how funky looking and smelling they had become.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2010, 09:40:19 PM »
Hi Dennis, welcome.

Junket tablet style rennet is not junk, several of our members use it, however I do not know at what dosage rate.

That said many members have problems with tablet style rennet, suggest you use Search tool for Junket and or Tablet, you should find lots of tricks and traps. Good luck.

Next batch I suggest increasing the dosage by 50% and checking that your temperature and method of pre-diluting and adding are correct, here's an info webpage on rennet coagulation problems.

Offline atreyablue

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2010, 09:44:11 PM »
So far i have noticed that if i use the tablet rennet i need 2 times what is recommended. i don't know if that is a common experience. i got my tablets from cheesemaking.com (not junket)
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Offline DennisZ

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2010, 10:03:41 PM »
Thanks to everyone who replied.
I received my liquid rennet from a cheese supply company today along with some calcium chloride guess I'll read the instructions for both and then try them together? Maybe I was stirring to long (5min) when I added the rennet or calcium was too low in the milk.  I have a PH tester from my not so old hydroponic days is there a PH I should have before I add the culture and then a different one after?


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Offline Nitai

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 11:38:46 PM »
I think milk is generally around PH6.45 before inoculating. Afterword, it is generally good to see some movement before renneting, even if it is very little. The acid production continues until brining and maybe even a little after that.

Offline MarkShelton

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 07:18:05 AM »
@ atreyablue: Which rennet did you get? I got the BioRen tablets from cheesemaking.com and had nothing but problems with getting a solid curd and a clean break. I e-mailed the owner with my troubles and he sent me a sample of the vegetarian rennet tablets free of charge and I haven't had any problems since.
I am constantly in awe of the very first people that consumed these things, despite how funky looking and smelling they had become.

Offline DennisZ

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 09:11:08 AM »
I received the liquid animal rennet but haven't tried it yet. I'm starting small with 1 gallon batches.

Offline padams

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 09:48:27 AM »
I made some queso fresco yesterday, and noticed...I have far less trouble with my curds when I use 2% than when I buy the whole milk that my local dairy produces. 

Now, their 2%, I think, is still very rich (there is often cream accumulated at the neck)  But for some reason I just get a much softer curd when using whole or adding their cream to  the 2%.

Try a batch with skim and see if that helps your curd set, along with the other wonderful ideas here!

EDIT.....1 gallon batches can be frustrating to get such little yield, and a lot of people don't recommend it, but I often make a 1 gal batch when I am trying a new recipe....I even made a 1qt monterrey jack last week!
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Offline MrsKK

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2010, 07:14:03 AM »
I've been very successful using Junket rennet to make hard cheeses - cheddar, derby, and colby - but I also use raw milk.  I make it in 5 gallon batches and usually use 4 Junket tablets.

My guess is that calcium chloride would have helped and also that you were stirring the rennet in far too long.  I generally stir the rennet in for only 30-60 seconds, very gently, then use the skimmer to stop the swirling of the milk by holding it vertically in the kettle.

When Junket rennet was no longer available to me locally, I ordered powdered calf rennet from www.thecheesemaker.com, as I found that the liquid calf rennet I used when first making cheese got very weak within about 9 months' time.  I've been very happy with the results.


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Offline atreyablue

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 09:40:07 PM »
@ atreyablue: Which rennet did you get? I got the BioRen tablets from cheesemaking.com and had nothing but problems with getting a solid curd and a clean break. I e-mailed the owner with my troubles and he sent me a sample of the vegetarian rennet tablets free of charge and I haven't had any problems since.


These say marschall rennet on them m-50 vegitable rennet

here is a link to the product i ordered  http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/109-Tablet-Vegetable-Rennet-20-Tablets.html

Im still new to using rennet, I will admit, I used lemon juice and vinegar before. I tried the rennet at the recommended dosage and it didnt produce the type of separation I am told you need (no clean break) , the previous times I used double the dose it worked fine.

Eric
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Offline Nitai

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 10:17:55 PM »
I use the same rennet Atreya, with raw milk, and I have always had wonderful curd sets. I think I often used too much rennet last year but even in batches when I used less I still got good sets. I am looking forward to using the floc method this time 'round.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 06:20:37 AM »
Just for info, Marschall Dairy Laboratories /Products was founded by Robert Marschall in 1906 in Madison Wisconsin USA.

In 1966 Marschall was acquired by Miles Inc.

In 1989, Marschall Dairy Products was acquired from Miles Inc. by French speciality chemicals group Rhone-Poulenc SA (Rhodia).

In 2004, Rhodia Food (including Marschall) was acquired by huge dairy ingredients maker Danisco.

After all these changes. it's amazing that you can still buy Marschall labelled rennet tablets! Some info on them on Dansico's website. Some technical material on Danisco's Marzyme Rennet here. Another post on Marschall brand rennet tablets here.

Offline MarkShelton

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 07:13:01 AM »
Oops! I'm sorry, I got mine from thecheesemaker.com (They are a different manufacturer also, It says Fromase on the back) so I can't be much help with that rennet specifically. However, you say that you have had some luck before with increased dosage; I don't suppose you determined the flocculation point, did you? If not, use the spinning bowl technique as found in the When to Cut Curds section of this site. For most cheeses, the flocculation point should occur between 12-20 min. If you are in this range for this particular dosage of rennet, then you're good to go. Make a note for yourself that this is the optimum dosage, no matter how high it is. If you get a flocculation less than 12 minutes, you are using too much, and it can have irreparable effects on the taste of the cheese.
I am constantly in awe of the very first people that consumed these things, despite how funky looking and smelling they had become.

Offline padams

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Re: Coagulation, Rennet, Tablet, Junket Brand - No Clean Break
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 07:29:03 AM »
ok, I have been quaffling for some time as to post this question or not.....

When I use 1/8 tsp per gal of Dairy connection double strength veggie rennet, I get flocc. in less than 1 minute.  SOOOOO...last week I tried cutting that dosage in HALF....flocc. took between 5-8 minutes, but even after 1/2 hour total flocc time (trying to make a jack) my curds were so soft that it was a total flop...ended up feeding it to the neighbor's chickens. I couldn't cook enough moisture out of them. When I tried to flip it after it's first pressing, it completly disentegrated back into separate curds.
I know I need to go to the metric system, which I am desperatly trying to understand (I spend most of my time here, reading past posts) but until I can wrap my little brain around it, does anyone have any ideas?  I let my milk culture for at least 1 hour, and the inital heat was right on at 88 deg.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer....