"Slouchy" cheese?

[mightyjesse]

I'm making a muenster using the recipe from this site... After flipping my muenster every 20 minutes for 2 hours (6 times) and then leaving it in the cave in the mold for 12 hours (overnight), I took the mold off and brined for 12 hours.. Now, 12 hours after innoculating my cheese, I find that it's "slouching." The middle of the cheese wept out whey and collapsed, making my cheese short and fat in the middle.

I have this problem with the camembert recipe too...

How do I make sure all the whey gets out of my cheese so it doesn't slouch? Longer cook time? Smaller curd cuts? Longer time in the mold? Light pressing weights?

This was a 1 gallon batch... Your advice would really be appreciated! This is my first soft/semi-soft cheese...

[Cheese Head]

MJ

As your cheese leaked at only 1.5 days age I'd say your curds were too moist coming out of the hoops. Several possible causes as you say:

• Smaller cut curd would help.
• Cooking time too short.
• Not stirring enough, while you have to start very slowly, as the cut curds shrink I find I can stir harder which results in higher whey expelled.
• Not long enough in the hoops, while I haven't made this cheese, I normally leave my cams outside fridge at room temp over night to aid in acid generation and whey expulsion.
• A weight would help, but I think above methods should suffice.

Sorry this isn't much help for your current batch, next try I'd overshoot on lower moisture content, then following time you can correct hopefully to moister curds.

Last batch of cam's I made were also too moist I think at cut curd time, but pictures should give you another reference point. I was using store bought whole past & homogenized cow's milk.

Also, I recommend reading through others posts on Muenster (via Search tool) to get ideas.

For others, that Muenster recipe is here.

[mightyjesse]

Hah. 2 years later, I'm having another go at muenster, and it's slouchy again. >_< Still looks good, though. I shall do another make of muenster as soon as my molds are free, and this time, I think I shall add a bit of pressing weight... Probably not more than 2 lbs... And maybe, after salting, I need to put the cheeses in the molds and in to the fridge for about 6 hours to finish weeping.

[soleuy]

I've been doing Taleggio for three times and having over and over the same problem: a slouchy cheese after  I take them off the molds.
In the procedure there is no cooking, no stirring, no weight. For draining  the curd is cut ( first 8- 10 cm, wait for 10 minutes, cut nut-wood  , wait 5 minutes) put into  molds with holes and without base at 20- 25 ° C for 4- 5 hours flipping them over after 30´- 1hour ( two or there times) and  after 1 hour and a last time after 2 hours. I take them of this warm place when  the ph  of the whey is 5,2.
 Some times I proved leaving the forms for two days in their molds in the fridge before taking them off for salting but it didn't work;  like always they began to lost their form when are taken  off the molds. 
 I'm lost!!!  I think the cheese is too moist but I don't know how to proceed: more cutting ?, stirring (no in my  the procedure), or leaving them in the warm for longer not worried if the ph gets lower. I would´appreciate your help and excuses for my English. I'm improving my listening skills listening to English podcast while doing  my tasks but my writing and talking haven't changed at all!!!
Till now I've never arrived at a taleggio because I decided to eat them as stracchini without   aging because  I think  they are too too creamy and soft and the grind will surely crack

Thanks

[iratherfly]

Just read a technical note about this phenomena and remembered this thread. There is a fix for it. This is meant for a Reblochon but I am sure that it will work with Munster and Tallegio too:

1. You need to increase the contents of your mesophilic strains vs your thermophilic ones
2. Ripen 15 minutes more before renneting
3. Stir for 5 more minutes
4. Pay attention that the cheese is at least 86°F/30°C during moulding and in the hour following moulding
5. Pay attention to room temperature during pressing (or overnight wait while in moulds). Your room should be BELOW 72°F/22°C

I hope this helps!

[soleuy]

Thanks for your advices!!.I read them after doing my last taleggio, but it's easier going ahead with them.
I'm not using mesophilic strains because they are not in the taleggio and I've always  ripened 30 minutes before renneting. Now I'm paying special attention at  the cutting of the curd and the stirring because talking with my husband (he knows nothing of cheeses but he is a biotechnology) he said to me that he would try to be sure that a good quantity of whey has drained before moulding. So even though I don't cook the curd I stir for a while.
During moulding the cheese it´s kept at 25 °c . I controlled the weight and the pH of the cheese during the last part of this phase (stufatura). My last taleggio was the first with a  yield similar of this cheese (13 % ) but  the pH after moulding was a bit low 4,8. I had a problem with the temperature and it went up (42 ° C) during some minutes . The cheese it´s aging now, with others that  soft slouchy cheeses but nevertheless I'm trying,  and the last isn't slouchy!!!

[iratherfly]

What Tallegio recipe are you using? Are you using raw milk?

[soleuy]

This it´s what I'm doing. I get raw milk but I'm pasteurizing it.
Taleggio recipe
Pasteurize milk at 71 ° C
At 42 ºC add Termophilic culture (S Thermophilus and L. d. ssp bulgaricus) Wait 30 ´
At 37 º C Add Rennet for flocculation 8- 10 minutes, coagulation time x 4
Cut in 5-8 cm blocks/ wait 15' / cut to 2 – 3 cm blocks mixing carefully 10 minutes.
Mould (ph 5,2)
Leave the cheese in the mould at 22- 25º C for +/- 4 hours (stufatura). During this step   flip first at 30' and there times after an hour 
Dry salt or brine at 18% a 12°C)
Ripening at 2-6 º C and 80-90 % HR for 35 days, washing with light brine weekly .

I'm ripening some forms in the fridge and some in the cellar at 10 ° C (I know it´s higher than recipe but I want to prove, the fridge it´s too dry).