Hello from Wyoming

[Minamyna]

Hello--

I purchased some cheesemaking its a couple of years ago and made mozzarella. I am home in Wyoming where my family has 2 milking goats and plenty of good milk. So I got several more kits and successfully made some chevre that received good reviews from the fam. 

I tried some Gouda after that, but had variable success because the kitchen wood stove was going and the temperature in the kitchen was so high that when it was time to "raise the temp" with 175 degree clean water to 94 degrees in the pot, I took the temp of the pot and the temp was already 94..... and I didn't have a clean break. I drained and pressed it anyways. Sigh, I guess I have to cool down the kitchen.

I am planning on really reading over the forums pretty carefully, I think a programmable water bath that we use in biology labs that are programmed to a certain temp would be the best way to make cheese. So if anyone knows any threads where people talk about this, I would love to read if this actually works well or not. Obviously the lab quality water baths are pretty $$...

Also being a microbiology major I am VERY interested in learning how to preserve cultures that are direct set so I have a collection of cultures. Any threads that pertain to preserving direct set cultures, or turning them into mother cultures, or how to keep cultures for a long period of time would be interesting. I am also really into sourdough and I have several strains I feed.


Thanks!
Myna

[Cheese Head]

Hi Myna in Wyoming USA, welcome to the forum!

Even at 94F you should still get a good rennet curd.

I think there are several threads on programmable water baths, they should be in the Equipment - Making Board. On preserving cultures, I'd check out the Ingredients Boards. For both of these topics, Search Tool is your friend, try words like programmable and controller or propagate.

Cheers!

[Minamyna]

Thanks I will definitely check all those things out. If my curd wasn't right-- rather then firm it was crumbly like cottage cheese and had settled to the bottom rather then floating on the top-- not enough rennet?

Thanks again!

[Minamyna]

Hey -- question I was just reading  DeejayDebi's website (http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/CMProcess.htm) and she mentioned that if you are using goats milk you always have to add CaCl, and I didn't could that be the problem?

I was trying to make gouda from goats milk, using the hard cheese kit from new england cheesemaking.

[linuxboy]

Curds shouldn't float on top, unless they have air trapped, are contaminated and are producing gas, or are very high in fat.

It's hard to say what the issue was in your case. I don't know what you mean by clean break, just about everyone's version is different. Don't know what you mean by crumbly curds, either, but if they were truly crumbly, then that could be too much acid from using too much starter or overripening.

You do not always have to add CaCl2 to goat's milk. But goat's milk does form a weaker curd all other things being equal because as compared to cow's milk it has a higher ratio of whey proteins to casein proteins (70:30, vs 80:20 for cows), and also lower levels of lactoglobulin. Generally, a little bit of CaCl2 helps, but only add if you get a weak set.

[Minamyna]

Thanks again for the response!

My booklet described clean break as when you stick your finger or thermometer in at a 45 degree able the curd split around the implement. It had a picture too. When I say crumbly I mean the curd was at the bottom of the pot with a texture between ricotta and very small curd cottage cheese and the whey was a pale yellow (not while like cottage cheese).

The milk may have been a month old, and I pasteurized it myself, following the instructions of hold at 145 F for 30 minutes. My little sister was helping me and it may have gotten to 160 F. I guess I got a little excited and wasn't as exact as I could have been about the temps... I will take all of your advice about the milk and follow my temp guide more carefully, so would you recommend the CaCl or not? Primarily I have goats milk now.


Thanks Again for all the help!!

[linuxboy]

So you used month old milk and tried to make a hard cheese? That's tough to do. You can still use it for soft cheeses usually, but not for hard cheeses. Also 160F will denature proteins, makes the curd weaker.

For hard cheeses, try using the freshest raw milk you can. You will see a dramatic difference in the curds, even when not using CaCl2. If your feed schedule has the right 2:1 Ca to P ratio and you give a good mineral supplement and the copper and selenium and cobalt and similar trace elements are OK, you shouldn't need CaCl2.

I would try it without using fresh milk, and if the curd doesn't set, add it in the next batch. Or if you want, try adding a minimal .05% (1/8 tsp/gal of 30-33% solution.)

[Minamyna]

Opps I guess I made all kinds of bad mistakes, none of those finer points were mentioned in my booklets..... :: hides under the table::

I don't feed the goats my aunt and uncle do, but I will check that the goats have trace minerals. I am assuming that is what you mean. When you say feed schedule need to be 2 Calcium: 1 Phosphorus, I am assuming we are talking about the goat not the cultures? They get alfalfa, grass and grain with corn and oats?

Thanks..yet again 

[linuxboy]

There's lots of missing info in the home cheesemaker type books out there. Some of it is because the authors forget to write it down, and some of it is because the authors are not scientists, or don't know the basic answers to fundamental questions of dairy science. Honestly, there's so much more good info on this forum than any book I've read. It's like the missing link between theory and practice.

By trace minerals I meant the loose salt mix. Healthy goats make for good milk . And yes, I was talking about the feed. Ideally, goats should have as much high quality alfalfa as they can get, in pellet or hay form. Grain should be used for energy and to maintain body condition. Alfalfa has the calcium and grain has the phosphorus.

[Cheese Head]

Just FYI, I've compiled different methods here for how to check for when curd is ready to be cut. Also some info here on common Coagulation problems.

[Minamyna]

Thanks