Author Topic: Camembert - "Rindless"?  (Read 1627 times)

Offline vavroom

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
  • Posts: 33
  • Cheeses: 3
  • Food is an important part of a balanced diet
    • The Wheeling Gourmet
Camembert - "Rindless"?
« on: May 26, 2010, 02:35:42 AM »
I must admit, the rind on a cheese is one of my favourite part, especially if it's nicely cared for. But! (Isn't there always a but?)...

I have now had 3 people mention that they love camembert & brie, but can't stand the rind!

Has anyone tried to achieve a camembert-like cheese, that wouldn't have a really strong rind? Any ideas how I might achieve that? I'm thinking perhaps wrap the cheese tightly in waxed paper before the mould starts to grow, but???

Thanks for any and all thoughts on this.
Nic
Don't use PVC Pipes to hoop your cheese - it leeches toxins and is NOT foodsafe


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline mako

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
  • Cheeses: 5
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 03:28:40 AM »
I haven't tried it, and this is just speculation, but I would assume that wrapping the cheese tightly before the mold gets a foothold would just keep it from ripening at all.

As far as making a less pronounced rind, I'm not the one to answer by any means, since mine have always tended to be excessively spicy and even ammoniac. That said, I would imagine that some combination of good wrapping (that breathes/lets out the pungent bits, but without drying out) and a long affinage at a low temperature would tip things in the right direction. I would also not be surprised if the specific choice of mold strain has some effect.

As far as the commercial choices, 'creme de brie' and the like, my guess is that they are produced by industrial methods too bleak to even consider here. (And this from the guy who still has thoughts of making his own American cheese.)

Offline Brie

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts: 535
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 10:49:51 PM »
Sounds like you may like to try Reblochon--very brie-like with some b. linens washes. Check out the "search" feature on the forum. I think this may be the cheese you are looking for!
Darn, another cheese meltdown--ahh, perfect fondue.

Offline vavroom

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
  • Posts: 33
  • Cheeses: 3
  • Food is an important part of a balanced diet
    • The Wheeling Gourmet
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 11:38:08 PM »
@mako, yeah, some production method are better left ignored, I fear :)

@Brie, thank you for suggesting Reblochon. I really rather like Reblochon myself, hadn't considered it as a possible "rindless camembert", but it's a definite possibility.
Nic
Don't use PVC Pipes to hoop your cheese - it leeches toxins and is NOT foodsafe

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2010, 12:55:30 AM »
and the rind is eddible!  ;D


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2010, 02:17:29 AM »
You can't please everyone. Some people would toss away the crispy skin off your perfectly roasted duck, cut off the crust of a freshly baked bread and peel the rind off your cheese. I can certainly empathize if the duck skin is burned, the bread crust is chewy, or the eatable cheese rind is too thick, ammoniated, or metallic-tasting.
But in my opinion, as long as you have done your part perfectly, just let them do their thing and give your better cheeses to the friends who have open minds and sophisticated-enough palates first. Not out of spite; you do this because these are the kind of people who would be able to appreciate your hard labor and give you the best sincere feedback to improve your cheese.

As for your actual question... the rind develops the character of the cheese. These are surface ripened cheeses and without the rind there would be no pH balance that enable them to ripen and create character. The rind also protects them from drying out. That being said, here are a few things you CAN do:

  • There are several strains of Geotrichum Candidum and Penicilum Candidum that you can shop for. They have different strengths, growth rate, shape, height and ammonia/stinkiness levels. Go with the milder/slower ones. Get Geo 13 or 15 instead of 17 and use PC VS instead of PC Neige.
  • Lower temperature will give you milder rind and slower development (but milder cheese too)
  • Another trick is to reduce the Geo level. This will change the character of the cheese but in my experience, less Geo = thinner rind
  • The last trick is very effective and very unconventional: You see, I do an extra treatment to Camembert style cheeses: I put them in 18% brine when they are ready and then let them dry off for a couple of days and wrap them for storage. By brining, I actually kill most of the Geo and stop the development of rind and ammonia. It hardens the shell for better future protection too. This is the ultimate natural way to stabilize the cheese, stop its maturation and extend its shelf time. When I began trying this method out, I accidentally would leave cheese too long in the brine and most of the beautiful velvety stuff washed off into the water, leaving a rindless cheese. (rind thickness and density were there but not the white Geo/PC and their flavors or textures). You can just repeat my accident... Of course, you will need to begin by making a cheese that isn't very salty because brining would make it considerably saltier (and don't brine in loess than 18%, you may actually encourage development instead of halting it)

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 02:28:06 AM by iratherfly »

Offline vavroom

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
  • Posts: 33
  • Cheeses: 3
  • Food is an important part of a balanced diet
    • The Wheeling Gourmet
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2010, 03:36:22 AM »
Thanks Ira, that is really good info.

And I grok re giving better cheeses to more discerning palates. A bit like if someone asks for Scotch, then says add ice or tonic, I give them the Johnny Walker instead of the good single malt :)
Nic
Don't use PVC Pipes to hoop your cheese - it leeches toxins and is NOT foodsafe

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 01:49:02 AM »
Right!

By the way, my user name is I-Rather-Fly. It seems that everyone thinks my name is Ira. That sounds like a name fitting a stressed-out accountant from Brooklyn. I hope I am not offending anyone :) My name is actually Yoav

Offline Brie

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts: 535
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 09:13:11 PM »
Well, that's good to know, Yoav--I think we tend to shorten names in messages for brevity and quite frequently use the first several letters--I have an uncle Ira and he is exactly as you depict the name.  ;)
Darn, another cheese meltdown--ahh, perfect fondue.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 03:02:09 AM »
I know, I know brie. Lately I have been getting direct messages under this new name and my initial thought was "who is Ira?" Just made it clear :)


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline vavroom

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
  • Posts: 33
  • Cheeses: 3
  • Food is an important part of a balanced diet
    • The Wheeling Gourmet
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 05:56:55 PM »
Ok Ira, I duly note the name change to Yoav :) Trying to confuse us, are you? :D
Nic
Don't use PVC Pipes to hoop your cheese - it leeches toxins and is NOT foodsafe

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 01:01:22 AM »
Always!

Offline Alex

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Haifa,Israel
  • Posts: 732
  • Cheeses: 27
  • Default personal text
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 01:55:17 AM »
My lips are sealed :D
Alex-The Cheesepenter

Offline FRANCOIS

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
  • Cheeses: 71
  • Default personal text
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2010, 04:14:53 AM »
You can, and we do, make a cheese with camembert curd that has no mold.  It is vile and makes my stomach turn thinking about it, but basically don't add any yeasts and vacuum seal the cheese after draining.  But be warned, it's gross.

There are a number of farmstead cheesemakers I know personally who take their excess, unsold and very ripe cameberts and wash them with liquor/brine/vinegar to make another cheese which they can then sell.  Similar to the method mentioned below and a very clever way to reduce waste.  There are alternatively makers who have a basic brie recipe and, after ripening for 2 weeks, will wash in wine/cider for 3 consecutive days and wrap the cheese for shipment.  The result is a wonderfully sweet cheese that ripens at low temp in it's wrapper.  Thinking about it now makes me hungry and I have a partial wheel in my fridge....off to snack.

Offline vavroom

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
  • Posts: 33
  • Cheeses: 3
  • Food is an important part of a balanced diet
    • The Wheeling Gourmet
Re: Camembert - "Rindless"?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 01:52:20 AM »
In English below

Ben dis donc, François, tu me donnes faim! Ta description du camembert n'est pas très appétissante, mais celle du brie qui est lavé, ça, c'est aguichant!

Switching to English for the "French-challenged" :)

François, you're making me hungry. Your description of the rindless camembert isn't particularly appealing, but that of the washed brie, it certainly makes me want some!
Nic
Don't use PVC Pipes to hoop your cheese - it leeches toxins and is NOT foodsafe