My great Baby Swiss mystery

[Boofer]

This was initiated in the following thread:
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2200.135/topicseen.html

Ah, my Baby Swiss adventure begins....

4 gallons of whole milk, 6.93pH @ 51F.
Heated milk to 90F.

7:00AM: Added 1/4tsp Aroma B and 1/8tsp Propionic along with 1tsp CACL2 in 1/4cup distilled water.
7:45AM: 6.85pH @ 85F. Still too low. Looking for 6.45pH.
8:15AM: 6.67pH @ 90F. Still too low, calibrated meter to 4.0 & 7.0.
9:15AM: 6.68pH @ 90.6F. Approaching desperation, added 1/8tsp Flora Danica to try to breathe some life into it.
10:15AM: 6.65pH @ 90.2F.
11:15AM: 6.55pH @ 90F. Arrrgh!! Decided to add rennet even though I'm not close to my target, 6.45pH.
11:19AM: Flocculation in 5 min. I had rehydrated 1/2 tablet of rennet in anticipation of being ready at 7:45AM.
11:38AM: Time to cut the curds.
12:15PM: 6.48pH @ 84.3F. Draining whey, stirring, adding 140F water to 1/3 original volume.
12:45PM: 6.44pH @ 100F. Wow, finally I see my renneting point almost 6hrs later. Kinda late.
Cooked and stirred curds at 105F for 40min.
Drained whey and prepressed curds.
Packed curds into 7-3/8in mould and pressed under warmed whey with 10lbs for 30min.
Flipped wheel and pressed under whey with 35lbs for 30min.
Flipped wheel, drained whey, removed cheesecloth, and pressed with 50lbs in warmed pot for 19 hours (maybe a little excessive).
Removed wheel. Cut off some of the nubbins from the curds squeezing through the mould holes.
Into the whey-brine for 7 hrs. Salted the top of the wheel.
Sampled one of the nubbins on the mould: 5.21pH @ 64F (though the temp would not be accurate).
Sampled the whey in the pot: 4.81pH @ 69.5F (again, temp not true).
Flipped wheel after 3-1/2 hrs. Resalted top.
Removed from whey-brine to air-dry for a week in the cave at 55F.

So it remains a mystery to me why the acidity didn't come up as expected.
It makes me want to try again to see if the cultures are indeed viable. I had just bought them from Dairy Connection.
The other alternative is to make the same recipe using some of my older but similar cultures.

-Boofer-

[Boofer]

I thought the knit would be tighter by pressing under warm whey and removing the cheesecloth. As you can see, the rind is still textured...not smooth. Go figure.

-Boofer-

[Brie]

I am wondering if you did not cut your curds small enough--they still look as though they are quite large at draining. After the initial cut, after renneting, you may want to use a whisk to cut even further--needs to be the size of rice at final heating for Swiss. If the curds don't expell enough whey, they will be way too moist; which is what I think may have happened to yours. Don't give up hope, though--someone may chime in to give a better opinion! Good Luck!

[Boofer]

No, looking at the pic again and your comment...you're absolutely right. I knew that. I'd like to blame it on the interminable time it took to find the right pH points, but I still should have used my big whisk and cut 'em down to size.

I took it out of the cave this morning and lightly vac-bagged it. It's sitting in a constant 70-75F environment for the next three weeks to sweat and swell. Although the temps still drop down to around 65F by morning here in the Pacific Northwest, our computer room keeps the room that they're in a nice comfy 70-ish.

I followed the baby swiss in the next two days with a Jarlsberg and I managed to get the curds down to rice-size. It looks good, but then so does the baby swiss. I'll have pics and a writeup elsewhere, hopefully sometime in the next week if/when the baby starts to swell.

Thanks for your observation, Brie.

-Boofer-

[DeejayDebi]

That looks like a tomme mold similar to one I got from Dairy Connections. I find the little outside wrinkles everytime I use it but they disappear in the brine and air drying. I found mine held a lot of whey and trapped air between the outside of the cheese and the mold. I driled a bunch more holes and that helped a lot but I still get some. The flat surfaces seem trap more air and or whey then do the rounded gouda style shapes. I think one of the advantages of the Kadova molds is they release that trapped air and whey due to the thick netting spaced bewteeen the cheese and mold. I was thinking about trying an experiment using that plastic web stuff for needle point as my cheese cloth for the next cheese to see it it is thick enough to release the whey and air.

[Brie]

Boof--actually the 65 degree temp is probably better than 70-75. Watch the cheese, and if it begins to look "oily", the temp is too high--I had this happen to me. Again-forge on!

[iratherfly]

Boofer, I am no expert on Swiss cheese, but my instincts are
- Curd: It doesn't seem to be in cubes but rather in long cubic strips. I think you didn't cut horizontally well enough. Your curd size seems too large and fluffy for a curd which was cooked for 40 minutes at 105F. Do you stir when you cook the curd? It should release more liquid and become smaller and springier. I also think you may need them slightly smaller for Swiss.
- What type of starter did you use? Mesophilic can only do so much in high temp. Did you also use thermophilic? This can make a huge difference in your pH balance for the temps you've used
- When you eliminate the cheese cloth, you ease the pressure.  Acidity builds up in the press. Less pressure = less acidity
- Lastly, as a rule of thumb ...pH meter is like PowerPoint presentation. You don't trust it to tell the presentation but just let it decorate your words with visual assurances... After destroying a few cheeses because I looked too long for pH points on a screen, I went back to trust my instincts; my eyes, hands, nose. What do you know? The cheese worked again. I have not turned on the pH meter since. I believe that a device that requires pesky calibration in a few different chemicals which must be fresh and held in specific temperatures - is bound to fail you or at the very least waste your time during a time-sensitive operation. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have and is a necessity if you are trying to achieve consistency and safety - but I am yet to see an affordable pH meter that works as easily as a thermometer.

my 5 cents...

[Sailor Con Queso]

IRF - Baby Swiss is a mesophile. MUCH easier to make than it's Alpine cousins. Milder, but still a great Propionic flavor, and doesn't have to age as long.

[iratherfly]

Got you; (man, you make me want to try one) ...though if we forget that it's Baby Swiss for a second - he cooked it for 40 min at 105F and is concerned about acidity levels, wouldn't you say that perhaps thermo would have given him more effective results than meso under these conditions?

[Sailor Con Queso]

No. 105F is a little high. Optimum for meso is 90-104. However, only a few die off at the higher temps, so mesos are still very active and do a good job converting lactose to lactic acid with resulting pH drop - both during the make and during pressing.

Thermo on the other hand is more efficient at higher temperatures like 120-130F. So the thermo would not do as good of a job at 105F.

I like the Baby Swiss because it requires MUCH less thermal energy to produce. I make Babies in the sink, but Emmental goes on the stove. The make is really easy and pretty fool proof. Those little Propionics are going to do their thing no matter what else happens. HOWEVER getting the eyes without cracking the wheel IS a little tricky.

[Boofer]

Boof--actually the 65 degree temp is probably better than 70-75. Watch the cheese, and if it begins to look "oily", the temp is too high--I had this happen to me. Again-forge on!

Won't it look "oily" anyway at any temp outside the cave or fridge? Isn't some sweating a part of the process? Thanks for the tip. I thought I'd read that Sailor claimed a slightly higher (low 70's) temp was more advisable than a lower one. It has been hovering around 71-72F and it is showing some oiliness on the surface.

- When you eliminate the cheese cloth, you ease the pressure.  Acidity builds up in the press. Less pressure = less acidity

Is this true? How is this true?

- Lastly, as a rule of thumb ...pH meter is like PowerPoint presentation. You don't trust it to tell the presentation but just let it decorate your words with visual assurances... After destroying a few cheeses because I looked too long for pH points on a screen, I went back to trust my instincts; my eyes, hands, nose. What do you know? The cheese worked again. I have not turned on the pH meter since. I believe that a device that requires pesky calibration in a few different chemicals which must be fresh and held in specific temperatures - is bound to fail you or at the very least waste your time during a time-sensitive operation. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have and is a necessity if you are trying to achieve consistency and safety - but I am yet to see an affordable pH meter that works as easily as a thermometer.

And here everyone is trying to meet their pH points to achieve consistency.... I suppose after some time (100 cheeses, perhaps, Sailor?) an aspiring cheesemaker could develop "a feel" for how any style cheese is going to behave at any time during a make. It would seem prudent up until that level of expertise is reached that added equipment or technology (thermometers, pH meters, etc.) would admirably fill in the gaps in experience and expertise. The recent revelation that questionable milk (pH 6.93 at the start) may play a negating role in making cheese has added yet another dimension to my cheesemaking craft. I would agree that one should not rely on a piece of equipment to the exclusion of all other factors. A certain "gutfeel" may be required to steer the cheesemaker along the best path.

If anything, this little exercise in time-delayed frustration taught me to wait a certain prescribed time (45min perhaps for the ripening) and go with the flow...anticipating that the process is in fact working and that I'm just not seeing everything.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Sailor - this is good info, thanks! Which recipe do you use?

Boofer - OK, the elimination of cheese cloth does let some pressure off. It's NOT very significant, but in the course of several hours of pressing is could affect your pH level slightly (depends on the mold type and pressure I suppose). After a few hours of pressing and turning the curd is pretty much set and nothing escapes the cheese mold holes anymore and then there is no more problem.

As for the pH meter - sorry for releasing my frustration with this unit on you. I may have exaggerated *slightly* but I remember that on two cheeses my calibration was way off and by the time I got the meter calibrated, I over-ripened the milk and 2 months later I got a chalky dry, brittle cheese. If I would have just put a curd knife through it or spin a plastic bowl I would have perfectly catch the flocculation point, no digital instrument needed. (I also wonder about stabbing the cheese or sampling it for pH when it's not ready to open yet. I don't get how you do that without destroying it or spending a fortune on expensive probes).

When you look at the fantastic European traditional farmstead cheesemakers, you see very little of that pH metering happening. Historically cheese has been made for thousands of years without it... But I agree that this is a MUST item in every food lab, testing, licensing and manufacturing facility that need to crank out consistent and safe products. For me it's a bit like learning to fly by instruments before you practice hands-on takeoffs, navigation and landing - basic pilotage; these building blocks enable you to feel the aircraft as you experience its handling and deal with real world weather and emergencies. Now imagine trying to turn into the final approach when all the conditions are perfect, only to miss it because you were futzing around with GPS which you can do without? Sure, its a safety measure that you should be able to trust and should be installed on any commercial aircraft, but every pilot that use it learned first to fly without it. I suppose that's a better analogy for how I feel.

[Boofer]

iratherfly - excellent analogy, but there again to take it out a little further.... I don't think in the early stages of learning to fly, a pilot could do without an airspeed indicator. If you haven't reached an acceptable airspeed before you rotate and start to climb on takeoff...your plane will probably stall ==> ruined cheese. 

Since moving away from "clean break" and learning the spinning bowl technique, I have no problem finding that point in the process. I've actually been pleasantly surprised at the results.

I've read recently that breaking into a cheese before it is sufficiently aged will disturb the biological and chemical processes going on inside the cheese.

Even though I just made a baby swiss and a jarlsberg last week, I am anxious to refocus my techniques and do another one of either of those as a sanity check really soon. Actually, I'm waiting on a shipment of rennet along with  some b. linens. Looking to try a Muenster in my near future.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

Funny... Though I have to say that one of the first things I experienced in flight school was to be taught how a plane can just fly itself because it wants to; instruments or not. That saved my life later one day in 2006 when I landed in San Diego with a broken airspeed indicator.  The Airspeed indicator however is perhaps the most primitive instrument ever made by men (makes a sun dial seem hi-tech). It requires no futzing around with; so in my analogy it's the turning bowl or the measuring spoon 

Post photos of your Muenster when you make it, will you?

[Boofer]

iratherfly - Now I understand your handle. Yeah, I learned early on that the small Cessna I was learning in would correct itself and fly okay if I got out of its way. Great dialogue.

I did manage to locate one of the references to warmer eye-making temps:

No. Swiss types are supposed to be at 70-77F (or higher) for 3 or 4 weeks while the eyes form.

Here is a previous quote from Francois. Note that 25C is 77F. Way higher than my temp. If anything, we hobbyists are keeping our Swiss types at too LOW of a temperature for good eye formation.
____________________________________________
We vacuum pack it.  We make something like 10 tonnes an hour with this method.  Pe the Naitonal Dairy Council:

Rindless Swiss cheese in blocks is an American innovation. The milk is set, and the curd cut and cooked as described above for traditional Swiss cheese. In rindless Swiss cheese, the curd and whey are pumped into a forming tank, where the curd settles and pressure is applied with press plates before the whey is removed. After the whey is drained off, the curd is pressed overnight, then cut into blocks of the desired size (usually 80 to 100 pounds). The blocks of cheese are salted in brine similar to traditional wheels of Swiss cheese, usually from 1 to 3 days. The surface of the cheese is dried at 50° to 55°F for 5 to 10 days.

The cheese is then wrapped in plastic film and placed in a box under pressure in a cold room (50° to 55°F) for 6 to 10 days to prepare the cheese for eye formation. Thereafter, it is transferred to a warm room maintained at 70° to 76°F, the optimum growth temperature for Propionibacterium shermanii . During this principal ripening period, propionic acid fermentation occurs. Proprionibacterium shermanii and related organisms convert lactic acid and lactates to propionic and acetic acids and carbon dioxide. The propionic acid contributes to the characteristic sweet flavor and the carbon dioxide collects to form holes of eyes. The development of eyes is completed in 3 to 4 weeks. The cheese is then returned to a cold (35° to 40°F) curing room for 3 to 9 months or longer for slower ripening and more flavor development. Most of the Swiss cheese manufactured in the United States is marketed after ripening for 3 to 4 months.

and...

We make two kinds of swiss, wheels and blocks.  The blocks are vacuum packed and held at high temp for  a few weeks for eye formation (25C).  Sweating is not an issue.  For the wheels we dry after brining, paint them and then give them a few weeks at temp (25C), after that they are vacuum packed and chilled.

I moved my baby swiss downstairs (this morning) where the temp roams between 65F in early morning to 71F where it is now at 9:45PM. That might be okay. Since this is my first foray into this style, this will serve as my point of reference. I'd like to get another swiss done before the hot weather shows up. Maybe this year it won't get hot at all. Global cooling.... 

-Boofer-