Author Topic: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..  (Read 5197 times)

marksto

  • Guest
The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« on: June 02, 2010, 05:33:34 PM »
I made my first attempt at a raw milk blue cheese over the weekend using the recipe from Rikki Carrol’s book along with the one that Peter Dixon has listed on his site for “Minnesota Blue Cheese.” (http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_Minnesota_Blue.shtml)

Both recipes are quite similar except for salting. Rikki’s recipe calls for adding salt to the curds prior to hooping them, but Peter’s does not. I combed through old posts on blue and saw Sailor comment that salt kills blue mold, so I did not salt the curds.

Both recipes do, however, call for salting the exterior by rubbing with salt once it’s done draining and turning. I’m at that stage now but a bit confused, as I’m thinking that I now want blue mold to form on the outside prior to piercing, but if salting inhibits the mold then why am I applying it?

MarkShelton

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 12:48:48 AM »
Salt might inhibit blue mold a little, but by no means will it kill it if used in moderation. If you did add enough salt to completely halt the blue mold, then the absence of the mold will be the least of your concerns.
As for rubbing salt on the outside, it would lead to a "cleaner" rind on the cheese, but if you added the p. roqueforti to the milk, then when the cheese is pierced, oxygen will get in and enable the interior blue-ing, whether the outside is blue or not.
This is actually the method I want to try for my next blue cheese (actually a combination of the 2 salting techniques) where I give the curd a light salting before hooping, then a salt rub over the following days to create a hard, clean crust

FRANCOIS

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2010, 09:17:25 AM »
The difference in recipes is for the rind.  The cheese with  salt added to the curd will have a natural, moldy rind.  The cheese that has salt rubbed on the exterior will have a clean rind.  Salt, in high concentrations, kills blue mold.  For a big wheel of blue witha  clean rind you will need to scrub with saturated brine once in a while before it is fully ripe.

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2010, 02:28:26 PM »
Salt added in the right amount to the curds does NOT kill blue mold. In fact it sets up the proper environment for optimal growth and inhibits unwanted microorganizms. Salt is VERY important in all cheeses, so follow the recipe and don't skip steps or leave things out.

FRANCOIS

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2010, 07:19:09 PM »
I should have been more clear, Sailor is correct.

nilo_669

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 11:02:38 AM »
Just want to comment based on my experiments with blue mold cheese, I had made 2 separate blue cheese on 4 iters of Buffalo Milk but the difference is first dosage of blue mold, 2nd draining time . I'll call blue1 has lets say a grain of salt Roqueforti and blue2 has 3 grains . Both cheese are not inoculated but were infected during salting , blue one was drained for 3 days and blue 2 was drained for 5 days , ive noticed blue2 was showing already signs of blueing on the fifth day and on the third week it was covered all in blue, while blue1 began showing signs of blueing like spots then light brown or cream like coloring.
              Im aging them in a container with the same temp and humidity . Results are really interesting . Blue one which has more moisture in the curd has less blueing while blue2 was drained sufficiently shows more of the bluing.
           My conclusion is that Salt do not affect bluing in the cheese but rather dosage of penicillium roqueforti , determining what kind of hue would you like your blue to be and it takes a lot of practice and time to make that your Perfect Blue. I'll Post ble2 soon.
         

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 03:20:27 PM »
Nice observation, however we already said that salt does not significantly inhibit blue mold. Excess moisture will slow mold growth, but as the cheese drain the blue will grow better. If you want a good blue, you need to innoculate the milk in the beginning. The way you did it, the blue will mostly be just on the surface.

FRANCOIS

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2010, 11:16:04 AM »
We produce about 300 tonnes of blue mold cheese per annum.  I can say, unequivocally, that salt in high concentrations, absolutely kills blue mold.  We produce both clean rind and molded rind cheeses, the main difference is salting and brine scrubbing of the rind.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 03:39:33 PM »
Francois is right. Blues grow better at around 1% salt, and start decreasing in growth rate around 4%. But, they will tolerate up to 10%. Beyond that, they are just about completely inhibited. When you surface salt, what you do is create a salt gradient, with the outer rind layer heavy in salt, and the middle getting progressively less. This difference is there for a while, many weeks, as the salt penetrates.

So to get a rindless blue, you salt the heck out of it. I mean, 10% is not a trifling amount. This prevents blue spores from germinating and there's an outer layer without mold, and the insides are still blue.

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2010, 08:31:05 PM »
Absolutely. Marksto's original question was why use salt at all. So, what I should have said is that salt in the concentrations that the recipes he mentioned called for are necessary and do not significantly inhibit blue mold.

As an example of a clean rind I have a Blue Gouda almost ready to cut. Because of initial brining and then brine washing the rind, the outside stays mold free while the inside develops the blue. We'll see.

BigCheese

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 08:46:01 PM »
Absolutely. Marksto's original question was why use salt at all. So, what I should have said is that salt in the concentrations that the recipes he mentioned called for are necessary and do not significantly inhibit blue mold.

As an example of a clean rind I have a Blue Gouda almost ready to cut. Because of initial brining and then brine washing the rind, the outside stays mold free while the inside develops the blue. We'll see.

I hope we will get some pictures. ;D

nilo_669

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 03:57:14 AM »
Sailor , yes its true that salt dosage in the amount of curd called for does not significantly inhibit blue mold. Its just we have have different kinds of processing , every individual person creates its own unique cheeses. Some salt their cheeses at different dosages , i do mine at 1.4% . At different standard rates we can experience enhanced taste and flavours of blue cheeses. Its in the style and character of people behind that great cheeses.

nilo_669

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2010, 04:47:36 AM »
The cheese on my first post is the same cheese at 35 days which is the Blue1 and the 21 days is the Blue2. Here you can distinguish the bluing , both cheese has the same amount of milk , salt , same aging environment but different in dosage of roqueforti and drainage time.

9mmruger

  • Guest
Re: The role of salt with blue mold - a bit confused..
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 07:33:37 PM »
Great thread all.  I have not made a blue yet, but I see one in my future  ;)