Going commercial?

[Sailor Con Queso]

Francois makes a great point. If they didn't require re-pasteurizing on location, then not only restaurants, but grocery stores could be making their own fresh cheeses. My inspector has pointed out to me SEVERAL times that you never know where milk has been or how it has really been treated during transport, so his philosophy is "better safe than sorry".

Pasteurization does NOT kill all bacteria, that's why an unopened jug of milk will spoil in the refrigerator. UP kills many more (but not all), so it has a longer shelf life. But it's also worthless for making cheese. Properly produced, the starter bacteria in a cheese aged over 60 days are going to outcompete any contaminants. A fresh soft cheese is a whole different ballgame. Those lingering contaminants that spoil milk can & will easily remain viable. If one of those contaminants is E. coli or another pathogen, then there's a huge potential problem. However, as a cheesemaker, your going to know within a few days if there is a serious contamination problem by the smell and texture of the cheese. It will smell and look like bad cheese.

So, I guess I can understand where the regulators are coming from on re-pasteurizing. I certainly don't want a minimum wage worker bee making cheese at my local grocery store. That's where states need to certify trained cheesemakers (like in Wisconsin) and not just the facility. A TRAINED cheesemaker should be allowed to do many things that an untrained worker bee can't.

[iratherfly]

Thanks Sailor, I will have a talk with the nice lady from the state. She is very helpful. I don't see how they can require me to pasteurize if I have the right to make a 60 day raw milk cheese on premises, but if they do I will be sure to get only raw milk in so that it doesn't have to be pasteurized twice and that I have control over it - I prefer gentle lengthy pasteurization to some of the quick violent processes that milk producers engage in (not ultra pasteurized but quick and hot just below it). In any case, from what I read here they do certifying for the receiving station in the plant and for the trucks and for you as a milk receiver - separate from the license to produce dairy

[Alice in TX/MO]

You live in an apartment?  Where are you making this cheese and aging it?

I think I must be missing something.

[iratherfly]

Hey Alice, sorry it took so long to get back to you; I was traveling for the summer.

Yes! I am a Manhattan apartment dweller. In New York standards my apartment is considered huge, but in normal American standards its really quite small. I have a great galley style kitchen with tiles, marble and stainless steel sinks so it is easy to keep clean and sanitize. I also have press that is stored when I don't use it and a special cabinet for all my molds, cheese cloths etc. I have a few large commercial pots used as vats but when I don't use them, they contain my normal kitchen mixing bowls, colanders, etc in the cupboard.

I focus on smaller cheeses so I can make a lot (My largest is 7.5" but most of my cheeses are in the 3"-5.5" diameter range). I also focus on intense cheeses, where a small bite goes a long way. This means that they are being consumed as slow as a large mild cheese.

I have a wine refrigerator next to my desk. It's perfect for cheese because if keeps the humidity in and operates in the 50F-60F range which is perfect for long aging of most cheese and initial aging of surface ripened cheese (Camembert or Crottin style). It has wooden shelves and it is lined up with straw which locks in humidity and keeps the microorganisms busy. (Wine fridge is also perfect to cure meats, keep chocolates and of course, store wine bottles).  Whenever a cheese is done with the cave aging I move it to my refrigerator where it can be isolated in containers at 41F.  I make more than plenty with this, but for commercial cheesemaking it wouldn't be enough (nor would it be legal or responsible)

[teresap989]

I think the regulations differ in all states. I checked with the health department here, and cheese-making falls under a different jurisdiction than restaurants. However, if the cheese is made in a restaurant, they may sell it only as part of their menu--so you may want to check that out in NY. When you are making cheese to sell, it not only must meet health regulations for processing, but also packaging regulations established by the FDA. Why don't you make and sell your cheese at the restaurant to begin with, and establish your name and make some cash, then move on to the next step. That would be a perfect test for you! Good luck, I am always so envious of you!

I also think so.thanks



__________________
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[DeejayDebi]

Not that it is an important point to the conversation but for clarification - we have Co-Ops and Health Foods stores that you can buy raw milk from in CT, not supermarkets. The small size of these stores makes the price extremely high - generally $6 per 1/2 gallon plus $2 bottle deposit. All are sold in glass bottles so the out the door price is $8 per 1/2 gallon. Many on the farm sellers sell raw cows milk for $6 per gallon.

[steffb503]

I am in NY.  have a raw milk license and I am in the process of building My cheese processing room.

You will need to re- pasteurize any milk or milk product you put into cheese. If you add cream that you purchase at wal-mart you need to pasteurize it and it must be pasteurized in a vat pasteurizer, I just spent $10,000.00 on mine.

The regs are long and hard to follow but the folks are very willing to help.

[iratherfly]

Where in NY are you? I would love to talk!

[steffb503]

I am in Sullivan county.Fallsburg to be exact.
www.mandsfarm.com

You are welcome anytime.

[iratherfly]

Sorry, I have been so busy this past couple of weeks. I will contact you as soon as I have a minute to breathe!

[smilingcalico]

Hey Yoav, How's your struggle going to get this operation off the ground?  Any news?  It's already been mentioned in the string, but getting time at an already established cheese facility is going to be your best bet, I presume.  Will save you many headaches, especially if the place has a good reputation with the local inspector.  By the way, how long of a dunk in the brine did you give that great cheese (the cheese that started it all!) to stop the activity?

[iratherfly]

Ah, well, I have just launched my latest tech startup and it's energetically and financially exhausting! Unfortunately I haven't had time to make as much cheese as I wanted (though I am trying to catch up). I am torn between the tech and cheese, but I can be more patient with the cheese for now. Not a lot of progress. Hope to begin aging some cheese this year at Murray's cellars but I still don't have any confirmation as far as a legal facility goes. One of the options I am willing to try is to pre-sell the cheese wholesale to chefs, distributors and shops. Then I certify legal farmsteads to produce it for me. Kind of loses the Manhattan made cheese element though.
Does anyone have experience with that here?

As for that cheese dunking. About 15 min/side. Remember that I am not doing osmosis to further salt the cheese or extract moisture. All I want to do is stop that geo from growing and strengthen the rind.

[steffb503]

Perhaps we should talk.
I have just gotten by cheese vat and awaiting full milk production.
We might be able to work something out, My facility your recipe and contacts? Who knows might be profitable to both of us.

[iratherfly]

Sure Steff! Send me a personal message and let's connect.  Sorry for the late reply, I have been under the weather.