Author Topic: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.  (Read 12976 times)

BigCheese

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2010, 05:02:52 AM »
Debi, am I reading the recipe right: Cut partially at floc time and then wait 10 min and begin whisking? Do I not wait for a clean break?

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2010, 06:35:17 AM »
Nitai - Here is another recipe to look at. Note that this one does NOT use Lipase, but it should. ::)

Parmesan Recipe

iratherfly

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2010, 06:38:59 AM »
Actually, if I remember correctly, the recipe from '200 Easy Cheeses' also doesn't have lipase

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2010, 02:13:26 AM »
Debi, am I reading the recipe right: Cut partially at floc time and then wait 10 min and begin whisking? Do I not wait for a clean break?

You wait for a clean break but when you cut - cut only in one direction then wait 10 minutes then cut to size.

BigCheese

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2010, 02:56:50 AM »
I read that too late, but at least I did wait for a clean break. I am a little concerned that I may have lost somethings in the whey do to my treatment of the curds, but my bigger (possibly directly related) concern is this:

I had no problem getting the curd from 8 gallons into the 8" diameter, 6" high St. Paulin Mold. No problem whatsoever. I have been pressing about 6 hours at this point, and the cheese is only 3" tall. I was thinking I would have a big ole' 8" round by 6" high Parm. Were my expectations just extremely off or did I lose half my cheese in the whey?

Also the cheese feels kind of soft at this point, like you might expect a cheddar-like cheese to feel. Is this normal? The wheel is pretty warm. I am hoping it will dry out in brine and curing.

By the way, I looked into the microbial lipase, spoke to Dairy Connection. It only comes in 500ml liquid, which can flavor about 5000 gallons, lasts 2-6 months, and costs like $500. So if anyone knows around 500 vegetarian parmesan makers, perhaps we can put up for a bottle... :o

iratherfly

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2010, 03:40:07 AM »
Was your whey clear/greenish? Or was it overly white?
Did you cut to pea size and cooked the curd until it was rice size?
Did you use raw milk? If not, did you use CalCl?
What's your yield % in weight?

BigCheese

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2010, 03:48:30 AM »
The whey was fairly clear, I was wondering if it was less than other batches though. A little hard to say, but it was not drastic.

I cut best I could  with my cutters (approx 1/4 inch with lots of pieces even smaller) and then began to stir witht he whisk. The whisk was not working grat so I mostly used my hands and broke up as I went along. Plent of the curds were rice size, but not all.

100% raw milk.

Have not weighed it yet. Does it matter to weigh before or after brining?

iratherfly

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2010, 04:07:03 AM »
If your whey is clear/greenish than you probably successfully have gotten all the milk solids that you could have gotten. With raw milk you won't have the calcium problem that can be attributed to loose curd so it really sounds like you did ok.

I would do a 3/4" cut if I were to then use a whisk. The whisk should break the curd up rather evenly as it firms up and releases whey.

The weight matters just to get a general idea of the yield. You are experiencing a 50% loss below what you planned for so it doesn't matter if it's before or after brining. Parmesan is a fairly low yield cheese, expect it to be in the neighborhood of 8%-10%.
7 gallons of milk are about 60 Lbs. 8%-10% of that are 4 to 6 Lbs. is that what you have?

BigCheese

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2010, 04:10:26 AM »
Well that sounds good. I did 8 gallons of milk and I just weighed it in at 5lbs 12 ounces, over 8%!

Thanks!

Minamyna

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2010, 05:48:30 AM »
I made Parmesan today too and it was a totally disaster. I ended up throwing it away, 4 gallons of milk. :'( Apparently you can't just "double" a single recipe. I used the recipe that came with my hard cheese kit from New England cheesemaking...

When is the acidity in parm supposed to drop? After the initial ripening? When it is cooking? I doubled the cultures and rennet and came out with a hard rubbery mass. Never got "rice sized curds".... It took over 45 mins to bring from 91 to 125 I think that was a bad deal? Plus I can't seem to make my pH meter read right despite the fact that I have calibrated it twice, I am really frustrated. I will go look at that forum next. I also forgot to add CaCl2 and usually do to store bought milk.

I started by running my non homogenized store bought milk through a separator and saving the cream for butter, because I read that parm was made with lowfat milk? Was that a good idea?

Lastly, a big shipment of stuff came from The Cheesemaker today and I bought sharp lipase powder, but it doesn't list parm as one of the cheese to use it for, does that mean I shouldn't use it?

I know I asked like 100 million questions, but I really hate throwing out cheese.

linuxboy

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2010, 06:15:18 AM »
When is the acidity in parm supposed to drop? After the initial ripening? When it is cooking?

Should drop during cooking, and in the mold.
Quote
I doubled the cultures and rennet and came out with a hard rubbery mass. Never got "rice sized curds"

Curd size depends on how big you cut them.
Quote
.... It took over 45 mins to bring from 91 to 125 I think that was a bad deal?

No, that's fine. Should be about 3 degrees F every 5 mins.
Quote
I started by running my non homogenized store bought milk through a separator and saving the cream for butter, because I read that parm was made with lowfat milk? Was that a good idea?

Parm is about 2.4% BF. Skimmed milk, basically.
Quote
Lastly, a big shipment of stuff came from The Cheesemaker today and I bought sharp lipase powder, but it doesn't list parm as one of the cheese to use it for, does that mean I shouldn't use it?

I like kid lipase in parm. You can use whatever you have, flavor will be a little different.

iratherfly

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2010, 06:47:40 AM »
I feel your pain Minamyna, I am sure you heard the old saying about not crying over spilled milk? Now you know what it meant. If it's any consultation, I can assure you that every person on this board has thrown away their share of cheese and started over.

Most cultures have dosing instructions that look like "1-5 Gal, use 1/4 tsp, 5-12 gal, use 1/2 tsp" This isn't exactly doubling. Bacteria grows exponentially so it just need the right seed amount to begin. Rennet and lipase are enzymes and you can double them (but watch out for double strength rennets). Same goes for Calcium Chloride which is a mineral. BUT when you put lipase, Calcium Chloride or Rennet in water, there is no need to keep doubling the water. The reason for the water is simply to allow it to distribute evenly all over your vat or pot. It won't dilute your milk strength - the water will eventually become part of your whey.

How do you cook it? Turn on the heat? Wash the curd? (remove some whey and replace it with warm water until you get to the right temp). Washing and cooling takes a bit of practice. not every recipe allows for washing but washing does give you much more control because every time you take whey out and mix some warm water (say, 130-140F) in, you can take a temp reading and see how long it takes you to raise the temperature so you can time it perfectly and easily by repeating the wash more or less often in your half hour (or whatever the recipe calls for)

I would leave the pH meter alone for now. Learn to feel the whey and curds, to smell them and look at them. The pH meter can drive you nuts and steer you wrong at this point.

A proper Parmesan should have lipase in it. It breaks down fats and proteins at the late part of the aging, giving the cheese its famous sharp flavor

Some brands of non-homogenized milk also offer it in lowfat variety. I wouldn't go crazy, since most of the fat is on the top of the jug, just spoon it off, reseal the jug and shake it. Done.

As for forgetting the CalCl - best practice will be to print a checklist every time you make cheese. It should be super simple, like:
-WARM milk to 88F
-ADD:
   + 1/4tsp MM100 Mesophilic
   + 1/8 tsp Geo 15
   +1/8 P. Candidum VS
- RIPEN 45 minutes
You get the idea... Hang it on your fridge when you make the cheese, get a sharpie and cross every item when you do it. You will never miss another item again, ever - guaranteed.
If you write comments next to the items such as the time started/ended, type of milk, overshooting or undershooting temp. etc you will have a draft of a proper log that you can copy to a clean file and keep so that a few months down the road, when you taste the cheese you can trace successes and failures of cheese characteristics to specific things you have done.

Lastly, if you have over-ripened your milk by adding too much cultures (you said you doubled everything) and by cooking for too long (45 minutes? I assume too long for your recipe?) than you have possibly created acidity that would turn out hard, dry, chalky and non-melting cheese. Even if it looks great, you won't know about it until you crack open the cheese months from now. Throwing away the batch probably saved you a disappointing surprise in the future. These losses are harder because they follow months of caring for the cheese.

Do over...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 06:54:29 AM by iratherfly »

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2010, 01:55:06 PM »
Makes fabulous compost. :D Nothing organic goes to waste at our house.

Minamyna

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2010, 02:18:48 PM »
Wow! Thank you guys so much.

Yeah I have done a lot of experimental cooking and baking, so if something doesn't turn out, I am not as bothered as I used to be.

I am just trying to figure out which steps are crucial to be very exact and which step aren't as finicky to the final product. I did double the water every time.

My new cultures that arrived yesterday do have dosing instructions.

Normally I heat the milk with hot water in my sink, but since the parm had to get to 124 I threw in the stock pot int he gas stove. The curd settle to the bottom and became a hard gooey mass. I don't think I stirred i enough. I really tried to cut my curd very small. The recipe I has said 1/4" cut.

The reason I made the parm was because we wanted the cream to make butter so I thought what cheese can make after I have used the cream separator on all the milk.

Also it seems like my milk doesn't yield very much cheese. It says,"Yields: 1-1.5 lbs" but I would be really shock if all my cheese were actually a pound when they came out.

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Parmesan recipe, few questions, feedback appreciated.
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2010, 02:33:47 PM »
Any reduced fat cheese is going to have a MUCH lower yield. When you cut curds really small like with a Parm, the yield goes down even more becauise of loss from the curds. You will notice that the whey is whiter with small curd cheeses. That's the loss.