My First Raw milk Tomme - Help?

[FRANCOIS]

Vacuum sealing is altogether different.  You could float when young then dry well and seal.  If all goes well the vacuum will protect things.

I make up one bucket of solution and use it till the batch of cheese is done.  I just snap a lid on and keep it in the cooler with the cheese.

A bit of acid in fresh brine never hurts.  Don't worry about rehydration before hand as you'll be using the same solution over and over again.  The dunk I do is literally that, dunk then rub and back on it's rack.   I only do it to get the yeast going, sometimes it only takes one dunk.  Once you see white growing then I just give it an infrequent wipe till things are really cooking with gas, then I let it go.   I don't bother drying it between dunks, sort of defeats the purpose of the dunk.  I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

[iratherfly]

OK, I made the "dunk" by using 500Ml filtered water, added 3% salt by weight, then 1/8 tsp CalCl2, 1/16 tsp yeast, 1/16 tsp B.Linen, 1/16 tsp Geo and 1/16 tsp cylindrocarpon. I am now letting it develop in room temp for 12 hours.

Can you guys confirm my instructions from the previous message? do I just dunk it in-and-out of the thing and then let it dry? or do I live it in for a while?
Can I re-use the same dunk for the next 2-3 dunkings?

[linuxboy]

Just dunk to let the liquid coat everything and take out. No need to soak, it wouldn't really do anything except maybe soften the rind a little, and you don't want to do that.

Use the same liquid until it's too smelly to stand. And keep the bucket in the fridge or cave if you can at all because you don't want it getting too smelly too fast.

I reuse the solution for several batches until it goes bad.

[iratherfly]

Thanks linuxboy! The question about reusing the dunk was related to something I read about not putting your cloth back in the wash which you intend to reuse when you wash rind as it may contaminate it and listeria can grow in it which will infect your cheese on the next wash. I will do 4 days of wash and let rest and dry in the cave at 55F

[mtncheesemaker]

Thanks for this thread. Great info here.
Here is a picture of my 3rd tomme, 2 gal cow:1 gal sheep milk. I cut this cheese at 62 days. I was pretty much in the dark about the whole washing process (still not exactly crystal clear about what I'm trying to accomplish). This cheese is delicious but I'm thinking it could be a bit softer.
Without going off on too much of a tangent, I'd be grateful for some guidance on the "building" of a rind on the softer cheeses, i.e., muenster, tallegio and reblochon. I've made a few of these that were edible, but seem to have issues with wet or sticky rinds and some instances of slip skin. This makes it difficult to "wash". I'm wondering if I'm not getting enough moisture out of my cheese to begin with.
Any tips welcome.

[iratherfly]

Yes, I agree, there is so much to learn and I am not sure what I am doing right or wrong either. I too LOVE the washed rind cheeses that has soft paste (Morbier, Tallagio, Reblochon Etc.) but I have been messing them up; either the rind is too thin and followed by a few mm of dry paste before you get to the good stuff, or it takes so long to build it that the paste gets too dry. From some reason no one can give me a straight answer such as "make the cheese, keep is in 90% RD at 55F for one week, then every two days rub bacterial wash on it, wipe it dry and brush it lightly"). I now have Reblochons aging at week two. The Geo just started showing up but I don't know that this cheese will ever get enough rind to start making a moist paste inside before too much humidity is lost (I do age it at about 85% RH/55F) - just clueless so a lot more milk will get lost before I get answers.

One thing that I do find helpful is videos. I find a lot of little clips of traditional cheesemaking in farms in Europe on YouTube. I also have a few episodes of the great Australian series 'Cheese Slices'. what you see there in factories and farms all over the world give you a really great idea of how tough you can be on curd, how they measure pH and salinity, how they mold and press cheeses correctly and the affinage process. Getting the right formula is still difficult. I will share whatever I find...

As for cheese that is too hard, chalky or flaky - I think that happens in the vat. Watch the curd cutting and acidification levels of the milk. I began experimenting in techniques to prevent it a few weeks ago. Let's see how the new batches come out.

[Oude Kaas]

Great thread. As Linuxboy said, to create a rind like Tomme de Savoie or Tomme de Craueuse, you need a proper aging room which in my experience means a room with a wealth of microorganisms. I think this is hard to rercreate in a wine cooler or converted refrigerator. I have only managed to grow wild rinds like this in our basement in upstate New York. It's a half-basement with a dirt floor, natural stones walls and a wooden ceiling. Below a link to some rind results. Please disregard the accompanied writing, this was when I first started out and I was just guessing.
http://heinennellie.blogspot.com/2008/08/tommes-upstate-continued.html

In regards to a reblochon type of rind, brevibacterium linens like a fair amount of fresh air. In general, the air in wine coolers and refrigerators is rather stagnant.
Last winter I tried to make a cheese resembling epoisses. For the longest time I could not get the b linens to grow. Once I moved the cheeses from the  converted refrigerator to the cave, they took off. It was an air flow problem.

[mtncheesemaker]

Thanks IRF and Jos. I usually get the B. linens going OK, but end up with a too wet rind.
Jos, love your coolbot set-up. Here in Colorado lack of humidity is a real problem, so a cave situation without some humidity addition doesn't work.
Also, those cheeses on your cheese board look mighty fine!
Pam

[BigCheese]

wow Oude, awesome blog!

[iratherfly]

Thanks Jos, yes, I am working on improving the conditions for the aging. I still think my technique lacks more than my aging conditions. But then again, one of the great thing about this town is that so much of it is in dingy undergrounds... I am working on finding a proper cave also for my commercial experiment. I know that you know where I live and yes, the brick and concrete basements there are for rent. In the meantime though, any suggestions on how to make this work better?

[DeejayDebi]

Hello OK good to see you again.  Glad you posted a new link I lost my old computer files and lost the link. I Enjoy reading you blog.

[iratherfly]

So... it's been almost 30 days:
- I dunked the cheese in bacterial brine over the first 5 days
- Cheese remained at my 60F cave in a very damp aging container (I assume 75%-90%RH) where there is little air flow (I wish I had a container that leaves more air).
- Wild mold is growing steadily. Through the white Geo and slight yellow B.Linen effect, you can now notice the brown spotting of the Mycodore spreading from the center. From some reason though, it seems that the side of the cheese is lagging 2 weeks behind in mold development
- I felt it was covered enough for me to brush it, so I brushed it a couple of times in the past week to help the sides grow faster.

So now what? Beer treatment? (And if so, wash daily for a while? Dunk 3-5 times 2 days apart?) Wait? Salt? Here it is (this photo is taken immediately AFTER brushing so you can't really tell the wildness of the mold):

[iratherfly]

Anyone?

[linuxboy]

Traditionally, the way it's done is that after you've built up the rind flora, you just leave it alone and brush it back once in a while so it's not too thick.

What are you after? Why do you want to wash or salt? IMHO, beer works okay for a smear rind, or to knock back penicillium growth. As a wash for a rind like that, the whole cheese winds up tasting yeasty, and that's an acquired taste. Sort of like someone spread vegemite on it.

[DeejayDebi]

Might be late on this one but I just took pictures a few days ago. I found these nice rectangular juice pitchers at WalMart I was going to cut into loaf molds but on a whim I used them for aging my reblochons and they worked beautifully. The little door works well for adjusting air flow. I got them 2/$5 this winter but now they ar $4 each. These are two reblochons molded in the little 450 gram kadovas May 14th.