Author Topic: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice  (Read 8062 times)

Minamyna

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Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« on: June 20, 2010, 05:40:03 AM »
So I had 10 gal of raw milk from this amazing Jersey I jsut bought. I researched some cheeses I wanted to try, and read up on them and I have to say as of this moment, none of them turned out quite right and I am feeling a little down about it.

I tried first a ricotta with whole milk and its turned into a gooey mass. Linux boy informed me that I probably didn't use enough acid. One gallon down.

Next I tried some mozz using a recipe he recomended, and I looked at the one on the site. The curd looked right, but I have yet to get it to stretch correctly in hot water. The one my sister tried, with 4 hot water washed,  turned into squeaky, chewy, hard blob curds. I saved half the original curd in a bag in the fridge, maybe I will try the hot water thing tomorrow.

While that was going, I figured provolone was pretty similar, but those curds looked kind of funny after sitting in their 144 degree water bath, I have yet to try to stretch them. I was feeling pretty discouraged by the mozz and ricotta. The curd is in a bag in the fridge.

Lastly, I have tried two light cream cheeses with different cultures, they actually look pretty good and I will know tomorrow how they turned out.

My munster, I can't tell if the right mold is growing and I have probably ruined the whole thing because I didn't brine it correctly.

Is there some crucial thing I am missing? I am reading the recipes, writing down my processes, and looking at the forum advice and they are still not quite right. Do I have to just keep screwing p and learning? I mean is there anything to do with cheese not turning out at altitude? I can't think of a reason why or maybe I need to get a better cheese making book of recipes? Or take a class? I am feeling kind of stupid here.

linuxboy

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2010, 05:54:38 AM »
You have to wait for the mozz to drop in pH. This takes a long time, sometimes longer than 4-6 hours. Let it sit and when you stretch it will go from turning out into hard, chewy, rubbery blobs into being soft, moist, buttery curds. It needs to sit. Try every few hours with a small piece of curd. When a small piece can stretch a _lot_ and form long strands, then it's ready.

In Italy, they will add fresh culture or whey, dropping the pH down to ~6.4 right away, then by the time they drain, pH will be at close to 6, and then it only takes 3-4 hours to get to 5.0-5.2. Mozz is tricky, don't be discouraged.

The best thing I can say for you is to try making one cheese type to build up your understanding. Take very detailed notes, start out with a prewritten plan, and then post what you did and we can try to help if it didn't work out exactly as planned.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 01:55:52 AM by linuxboy »

tnsven

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 12:26:34 PM »
Hang in there, you'll get the hang of it. Linuxboy is right, pick one cheese and make it a lot until you get the hang of it. Then move on to others. I made moz a lot until I got it down. This took some time and many failures. I like it because with the recipe I use, I can turn it into provolone just by aging (thanks for the tip on that, Tia).

Kristin

Minamyna

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 03:35:26 PM »
Lol thanks... and what if it doesn't stretch a lot? I put it in a bag int he fridge over night because I was tired and stressed out ;). It should definitely be ready to stretch now right?

linuxboy

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 03:44:53 PM »
Usually, yes. Overnight mozz usually works well for me. But if it doesn't, let it sit some more and try again later in the day :)

MarkShelton

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 07:59:39 PM »
Don't be discouraged! I've had plenty of problems with pasta filata cheeses also. They are difficult to master, and honestly, I've focused my attention on other cheese types for the moment. My thinking is that I can diversify my cheese knowledge, then come back to the problem cheeses later to master them.

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 12:11:59 AM »
Mozz and pasta filatas are NOT hard to master, but this is one group of cheeses that are MUCH easier to figure out with a pH meter. The curds need to get to 5.0-5.3 or nothing is going to make the cheese stretch. So it's really simple. Stick the pH probe into the cheese curds. If it reads 5.l6, it's NOT ready. If you don't have a pH meter just wait & test, wait & test... If the cheese "sort of" stretches, wait some more. Sometimes the cheese doesn't hit the pH mark until the next day. Cultured pasta filatas are much more forgiving than those made with vinegar, lemon juice or citric acid.

Muenster on the other hand is not a beginner cheese.

Minamyna

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2010, 10:25:38 PM »
Still not stretching. I got impatient yesterday afternoon, after 24 hours and tried again, and ended up microwaving it. Flavor: Great!, Texture.....chewy...squeaky.

So I had made provolone as well and I had left the curd in a plastic bag in the fridge for 2 days (this is day 2) NOT STRETCHY!!! :'( :'( :'( :'(

What the heck am I doing wrong? I am using 1/4 tsp rennet in 1.4 c cup water for a gallon of fresh raw jersey milk. I let it ripen the FULL time allotted and I used lipase. I am using well water for my rennet water.

Could I be not raising the temp slowly enough? Its pretty chewy and squeaky.

<--- Really tired because cow escaped last night and got to track her down very early in the morning.....she hadn't gone far....

Thanks in advance.

linuxboy

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2010, 10:42:08 PM »
Still same issue, not enough acid, and keeping it in the fridge slows down the bacteria. If you drain when the pH is low enough, around 6.0, then if you wait some more and put the curd in the fridge, the existing acid will slowly break down those proteins. But if you drain at a high pH, then there's a lot of calcium in the cheese, and it takes much longer for it all to break down. And then if you cold crash it in the fridge, the bacteria are very slow, and there's not enough acid or calcium bonds broken to begin with to get a good stretch. You either need to let it ripen before renneting, and then you can put it in the fridge, or you can let the curd ripen after.

If it's too slow, take it out and leave at room temp or put the bag into warm water. You'll see the curd mass change. It will go from being this solid rubbery mass where you can't even press into it with your finger, to being more bendy, and you can press in and the mass will give and be softer. That softness is the acid doing its work.

Another way to look at it is when you put it in the fridge, the acid levels should be mostly there. As the curds cool, the bacteria will still be active. And more importantly, the acid is present in the curd to slowly break it down. If you put it in the fridge and the curds are at an inadequate level of breakdown, you're just stopping everything, and they can't keep changing fast enough.

Eventually, you will get to a point where it will be really stretchy. It's like Sailor said, you make it and wait. If you want it faster next time, add more culture, and/or let it ripen longer before you add rennet, or let the curd mass sit in a warmer spot after draining.

Minamyna

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2010, 11:21:22 PM »
So if its not acidic enough, it needs to stay in a WARM place NOT the fridge?

Got it.

I'll have some mozz on the stove now. Trying again.

linuxboy

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2010, 11:45:20 PM »
It's about the tradeoffs, like I posted. Bacteria have optimum temps where their growth curves are highest. And at highest growth curves they consume the most lactose and grow the fastest. If you crash them in the fridge, they'll still eat a little, but it will be drastically reduced. The interesting thing is that if you get the curd acidic enough and if there's enough bacteria, they will continue to eat a little, but more so, the existing acid will work away at the curd and proteolysis will take place to enable the curd to stretch.

So there are two ways to go.

One, you can let the milk ripen, let those bacteria and acid build up to where pH is 6.2, then rennet, so that by the time you drain, you're at 6.0. Past that, even in the fridge, the mozz will develop and should turn out okay.

Two, cook, and leave the ball of curd in the pot either under whey or by itself in a warm place until the mozz curd gets stretchy enough. This takes 3-6 hours, depending on culture and temp and amount.

Hope that helps. Simple answer is yes, leave in warm place and it will build up the acidity.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:03:19 AM by linuxboy »

Minamyna

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 11:14:39 PM »
It took two days sitting at room temperature to get the mozz to pass a stretch test.  It's still a little rubbery, I would like it to be creamy and soft. I recently had some good mozz at local restaurant on a tomatoe salad and I was disapointed mine didn't turn out better. I think I need to let it ripen more.

Which brings me to my next question: what are the ramifications if cheese ripens too long before you add rennet? I let some parmesan ripen for lie 2.5 hours and it smelled divine? I have a little overheating mishap and couldn't save it, but it seemed to suggest to me that I should let things ripen longer?

linuxboy

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 11:30:18 PM »
If it took two days, then you need to use more culture next time. Try doubling it. Or, see my updated howto on my site, I posted the ratio details and other notes for rod and cocci bacteria for mozz to achieve a faster acidification. It should take 3-6 hours. Creamy and soft requires high moisture content >50% and high fats, and pH 4.95-5.2. To get those right, you need to use high fat milk, let curd heal, and use a moderate to high floc multiplier coupled with large curd size. If it's too dry with a 1/2" curd, cut it a little bigger and/or use higher multiplier.

If pH decreases before you add rennet, the rennet sets the milk faster. also, it changes the acidification curve, which requires balancing temp and time to hit the pH targets at whey drain. 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:06:29 AM by linuxboy »

MrsKK

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2010, 03:01:06 PM »
Here's a link to a thread I just posted on how I make mozzarella now:  http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4155.new.html#new

With my most recent batch, life interfered and I wasn't able to stretch the cheese the day after I made the curd.  So, after sitting at room temperature (about 70 degrees) overnight, I cut the curd into chunks, put them in an ice cream pail, and put them in the fridge.  Two days later I tested the curd, thinking that it would be way too acidic and would need to be fed to the chickens.

This actually turned into my best mozzarella yet.  It stretched nearly three feet before becoming too thin to hold together.  It has awesome flavor and is great on pizza.  I haven't tried it any other way yet.

Moral of the story:  patience.  I do think that refridgerating your curd has slowed the acidification down too much.  Try allowing it to sit out overnight and see how it stretches for you then.

Minamyna

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Re: Mozzarella Cheese Making Advice
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 05:29:38 PM »
Thanks both of you!

How does the longer floc multiplier work to make it more creamy AND logically it would seem to me that you would want to add less rennet? My floc is happening around 9 minutes? Some times 8? I measure it by when the bowl won't spin all the way around?