Author Topic: Cheese - Crumbly?  (Read 1568 times)

tally

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Cheese - Crumbly?
« on: July 01, 2010, 11:10:22 PM »
 I'm new to cheese making and recently have made some nicely eatable cheese. However, all of them (Gouda, cheddar, Monterrey Jack) are all crumbly. In addition they mostly taste the same; in other words no real difference in taste between cheddar, Gouda and Monterrey jack. Also, there is a slight metallic after taste. I'm using liquid calf rennet, store bought whole (cream line) milk with Ca Cl diluted in distilled water and Ricki Carroll's mesophilic starter. I use stainless steel utensils and pot and am very carefull with sterilizing and cleanliness. I press each cheese according to the Ricki Carroll recipe recommendation. Don't get me wrong, these cheeses are perfectly palatable. I just think that jack should taste distinctively jack-like and Gouda should be different from jack and be more like Gouda than jack. Any suggestions about what I might be doing wrong? Should I try a different starter? I don't have access to raw milk :'( so am using the local whole past/homo. I've tried different variations and am keeping good notes. The cheese has gradually improved, so I am making some progress. Thanks for any help.

linuxboy

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Re: Cheese - Crumbly?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 11:26:25 PM »
What is your pH at cut and whey drain? If you can't measure that, how much culture are you using and:

-how long are you ripening before adding rennet
- how long are you waiting before cutting curd
- How long are you cooking the curd

Sorry, I threw away her book years ago so I don't recall the details in those makes. You're using this?

http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/135-Mesophilic-DS-5pack.html

If so, that's the wrong culture for gouda, regardless of what Ricki says (also what's with the S lactis ingredient description.... it's been renamed L. lactis subsp. lactis for a long, long time). Gouda has eyes, it needs at least a diacetylactis, and preferably nonspecific mixed strain culture. Also, cheddar and jack are nearly identical cheeses, just with different final calcium and moisture targets, so unless you're adding non-starter lactic bacteria to that store milk, the flavor will be about the same.

tally

  • Guest
Re: Cheese - Crumbly?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 03:35:37 AM »
Linuxboy, Thanks for the great questions. Sometimes a good question is better than an easy answere. I don't have a pH meter and will work on getting a different culture.

-how long are you ripening before adding rennet
   for the Gouda it was 17 minutes
- how long are you waiting before cutting curd
   45 min. I timed it rather than using a flocculation test. I saw Wayne Harris' great U-tube video. I'll try that with the next batch.
- How long are you cooking the curd
   for about 15 min


linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Cheese - Crumbly?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 04:23:18 PM »
One of the main contributors to flavor comes from bacteria. When those bacteria die, they release all sorts of enzymes that break up the protein. The number of bacteria that you use as the acidifying culture makes a big difference. It helps to determine the extent of flavor development. The point in the bacteria's lifecycle at which you add rennet also matters. You want the bacteria to be past the lag phase. with DVI, 17 minutes is not long enough. It takes 45-60 minutes. Cooking the curd is about getting it to the right final texture, so that when you squeeze the curd in your hand, it should come together, but you should be able to separate it apart. I've never been able to get curd to that point in 15 mins. Too moist of a curd may lead to flavor defects, because as you're pressing it, too much whey is going out. But the curd in the middle when it releases whey, the whey can't escape well, so the liquid is trapped inside. Not a direct answer to why it tastes the same, though.

If you want different flavors, try using adjuncts to mimic non-starter lactic bacteria in milk. By these I mean thermophiles such as l helveticus. A small pinch of helveticus will help bring out sweet and nutty notes, and in cheeses like cheddar contributes a lot of aromatic compounds. They're present naturally in raw milk, it's part of why raw milk cheeses are better.

tally

  • Guest
Re: Cheese - Crumbly?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2010, 10:37:16 PM »
Thank you so much for the advise.  I'll try new bacteria, allowing more time for it to work and squeezing the curd. Will let you know how the next batch turns out.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Cheese - Crumbly?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2010, 10:48:28 PM »
Sounds good. If you need some ideas before your next make, post the recipe and your plan, and I'm sure someone will chime in :)

If you're making gouda, there are a few more tricks, like pressing under whey, that make a difference.