Author Topic: Farmhouse Cheddar  (Read 3610 times)

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 11:33:13 AM »
I have to know what the exact diameter is or I can't make the calculations.
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Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 05:21:30 PM »
I measured the mould, it is 4.5 inches in diameter.  Is there a good book that anyone can recommend to me that would have these kind of formulas in it?  I'm pretty new to cheese making, this is my second attempt.  I would like to invest in some larger moulds and don't want ot keep having to ask for others to do calculations for me.   

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 05:56:04 PM »
Yes, you're talking to the book...LOL I cry sometimes at night.

Where was I? Oh, What you do is take the radius of the mold (4.5" divided by 2) 2.25" and square it and times it by 3.15 (Pi). It will look something like this.

2.25 * 2.25 * 3.15 = 15.95 (rounded up) this is the square inches of the mold (your follower the part that goes in on top of the curds before you press).

So once you know that you take the chart I already made...you know just use the chart I already made, since you're using a 4 1/2" mold instead of the standard 4" just increase you pressure by a little. If your molds you get don't fall into the chart I made then ask again. The chart is in one of my posts so much has changed in the past few weeks I'm not sure where it is. But basically what you're doing is taking the sq. in. of you mold and seeing what force (pounds) you need to get the actual Pounds Per Square Inch on the mold. In the chart I made you'll see that the PSI doesn't change, for instince when making a cheddar as big as a house or small as a mouse you want 4 pounds per square in, but as the size of the mold increases the standard (for a 4" mold) of 50 pounds of weight is not enough as the weight is now spread over a much larger area. It's not a hard concept to understand but it's hard to type out. Hope this helps.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Erin

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 07:04:24 PM »
OK, this discussion on PSI has got me thinking. Say one day you make cheese and you put curds from a gallon of milk in the 4 1/2" mould and apply 50 lbs of weight on the top. The next week you do the same thing but you use 5 gallons of milk to make the curds (it's a tall mould).

Is the larger batch going to get compressed as much as the smaller batch? I don't see how.

I wonder if area calculation should maybe be the entire area of the cylinder of curds (2 x pi x radius x height of curds)? This is how you would calculate PSI in a bicycle tire I think.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 07:16:06 PM »
I've thought about that but it seems unlike as I would then have to press my 10" molds at 471 pounds, and there's no way it could stand that. You would have no moisture left at all. The reason it's only the diameter of the hoop we're taking into consideration is the spreading out of surface area but still maintaining the pounds per square inch.
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Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 11:09:58 PM »
Thanks Cartierusm for your help.  That will help me a ton in the future as I hope to get some other size moulds. 

Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 11:43:32 PM »
Cartierusm, how would you find the recommended PSI for a particular style of cheese?  I know that you had said it is 4 psi for cheddar, but how would I find that out for other cheeses?

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 01:33:54 AM »
Well it's not 4 psi for cheddar at the begining, there are different psi during the inital press and subsequent presses, 4 PSI is just the last which on a 4" mold comes out to 50 pounds of weight.

Most recipe designed for the home cheesemaker are calculated for 4" molds. So just base it off of those pressure and calculate for your new mold. I have a cheat sheet I made up somewhere on here which gives all pressures for 4", 8" and 12" molds. Here I've including the same PDF but V2 which has pressures for 10" molds. The Base Force is all you should ever need unless you are designing a custom cheese.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 08:19:39 PM »
I hunted around and found your chart last night.  That is an awesome tool.  Thank you much for posting that.  I think I got the gist of how to work it out now.  I attempted this farmhouse cheddar recipe and it appears to have gone well so far.

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 09:08:44 PM »
cozcoester,
I can attest to the fact that Carter is right on the mark concerning the need for higher pressing weights. I'm close enough to Missouri that I had to see the proof but I have no doubts whatsoever at this point.
I had some serious problems seeing my curd knit together properly when moving from a 6" to 8" mold. Right away Carter posted that I was not pressing with enough weight. Since I started following his advice I have done several 8" cheeses with no problems at all.
I might not completely understand the physics but I have seen the results of his logic and that's good enough for me.
Hope this helps.
Dave


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Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2009, 12:41:04 AM »
Thank you likesspace. I've had my eye on this forum for the past month.  I've found this forum in general to be a very helpful source.  The people who post here have been great.  I have learned a lot in a short period of time from reading this forum.  This is such an exciting new hobby for me, I had to get in on the action going on here.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2009, 02:36:07 AM »
Just remember too much pressure is not good, you'll have dry chalky cheese. The pressures we are talking about are tried and true and just have been mathematically scaled up for specific size molds. If you are going to use a different size mold you need to calculate the new pressures. Just increasing the diameter can increase the volume drastically.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline cozcoester

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2009, 12:14:24 AM »
Gotcha. ;)

Offline Brian

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2009, 06:38:08 PM »
I'm making this again with fresh cows milk tomorrow.
Uhmmm...... maybe the stirred curd.  I can't decide.

I have yet to taste the others I've made.  I want to give them a good 2 months.  Only been 1 so far.

Brian

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Farmhouse Cheddar
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2009, 07:53:45 PM »
Brian...
I have two pieces of advice for you...
1. Make the Stirred Curd Cheddar
2. Definately follow Carter's recommendations on pressing.

Tonight I opened a 2 months old Stirred Curd Cheddar (mainly because I noticed a mold spot under the wax) and I have to say that this is the best tasting/textured cheese I've made to date!
The texture actually LOOKS like cheddar and the best part is that it slices without crumbling! I can take a very....VERY thin slice off of the wheel and it still holds together. I'm pretty pumped about this. :-)
The taste of this cheese is not only correct, it is really very good for how young it is. I kept a small piece out for the family to snack on and the rest is going back for further aging.
I contribute all of this to Carter and Wayne's research and experimentation on pressing weights (and of course my own fantastic cheesemaking abilities  ;D).
Honestly, all of my other cheeses have had an open texture since I moved from a 4 inch mold to a 6" mold. I could never figure out the problem.
Once I moved to an 8" mold I knew I had to seek help with this problem. That just so happened to be the same time that I registered on this forum and right away the help and answers came.
Now I'm looking forward to cracking open some of my other 8" wheels (which number about 8 right now) to see how they are doing.
Many thanks to Carter and Wayne and good luck on your next cheese.

Dave