Author Topic: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom  (Read 12278 times)

Offline Boofer

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My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« on: July 03, 2010, 07:18:17 PM »
This should be fun. Actually trying to grow bacteria instead of fighting it. Of course the first week (out of 6 weeks) of washing and I'm seeing little white fuzzy patches, slightly gray patches, and maybe a little orangish patches. I believe its the latter category that I'm really expecting to take over and give me a nice orange-yellow rind.

The minicave keeps it around 52F and 93%RH which should produce a good crop of something on the surface. I'm wiping only with a mild brine every other day per the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses. That will supposedly help the b. linens to colonize the surface.

Although my Esrom will not be in the classic oblong shape, the wheel should function just fine.

Fingers crossed.  ;)

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Offline Boofer

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 07:37:47 PM »
Some of the particulars:

4 gallons whole homo/past milk
1/4 tsp MM100
1/8 tsp Flora Danica
1 tsp CACL2 in distilled water
2 drops annatto in distilled water
1/8 tsp b. linens
1/2 tablet rennet in distilled water

Pressed under whey with 5 lbs for 30 min.
Flipped, rewrapped, pressed under whey with 10 lbs for 30 min.
Flipped, rewrapped, pressed without whey with 15 lbs for 10-1/2 hours.

Whey-brined for 11 hours, flipping at midpoint.

Dried in minicave for 1 week, then began to wipe with brine (7/1/10).

I tried to use the Extech pH meter again (fourth attempt/make) but got similar unsatisfying results even after calibrating at the start with 7-10-4. Eh, it's a guide I guess, but for me not truly helpful. I'll stick with Debi's steerage and rely on feel, instinct, and developing experience.

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Offline iratherfly

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2010, 03:57:04 PM »
Ooops, you seem to have answered all my questions from the other thread in this one already. Nice!

What is it you use to boost the net in your aging box? I've been looking for something like this

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 07:56:14 PM »
What is it you use to boost the net in your aging box? I've been looking for something like this
I believe it's a sink drainer that I cut down slightly to fit in the Rubbermaid box. I've done it twice but think I need to do it at least once more. Seems like I always have something that needs a little extra humidity care. It works very well for my 4-3/8 inch and 7-3/8 inch Kadovas.

When I went to brine-wipe my cheese this morning, it had some dark spots as well as a couple orange spots and white fuzzies. The last two I rather expected, but I'm not sure about the dark spots. Should I attempt to remove them? They look like they are coming from the internal cultures and not just external blemishes.

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Offline iratherfly

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 12:58:11 AM »
Hmm... could be contaminants that stuck from the net on the other side and grew? Could this be an Annato or B.Linen particle that didn't break down in the inoculation and then got lodged in the curd and is now growing in a single spot?


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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2010, 08:38:12 PM »
I would just wipe them off and watch the areas. This is one of the many cheese on m list but I have maaged to try the real thing yet for comparison. Looks good so far hon!

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 02:21:31 AM »
Like I said...these dark spots seem to be deeper than just on the surface. If they're okay to be there and are part of the rind development, I'd hate to be gouging them out.

Francois or linuxboy - opinion?

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 01:23:56 PM »
Washing the cheese this morning I delicately scraped the dark spots off. No big deal after all. They weren't more than skin deep. Hooray!  :D

Looking good.

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Offline linuxboy

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 01:46:29 PM »
Those look like mold spores that landed and colonized. Wash with a vinegar/salt wash, and if that doesn't take care of them, gently scrape them off. I've never had mold grow from the inside out, it's always the opposite. I see it first on the rind.
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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 11:28:09 AM »
I started this cheese on June 22. Today is July 20th. After a week in the cave to dry out a bit, I began to wipe the cheese and flip it every other day. It has been in its minicave during this time. The temp and RH have hovered around 50-55F and 89-93%RH.

According to the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses, this cheese should go through a 6 week brine-wiping cycle. We're at the midpoint: 3 weeks.

Since this is my first washed-rind cheese, I have some concerns and questions about what I should be seeing, what is okay, what I had better remove right away, and so on. At this point the cheese is developing a yellow tone all over. The surface texture is wrinkly and crusty and does come away somewhat when I wipe it down lightly.

There are some grey-colored dips, "star"-shaped growths, and other dark spots that have appeared. I don't know what I'm looking at and if these growths are acceptable and normal with the b. linens, MM100, and Flora Danica cultures that were innoculated in the milk.

I've tried to capture the surface texture and some of these questionable growth patterns in hopes that someone is astute enough to tell me whether they are good or bad or neither.

3 weeks to go and I hope if these are "bad"  >:D that they don't consume my Esrom.

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Offline iratherfly

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 02:13:31 AM »
Do you have water beading on your box? Could this be it? Could this be something on the plastic net or the draining platform underneath it? Have you been using a clean cloth? Did you get this in contact with bread, bread crumbs (bread board/knife) vegetable or curing meat? Could be a cross contamination.

I would suggest to add some Geo or Yeast to the milk and/or the wash in such cheese. They prepare the surface and change its pH balance to enhance the growth of rind with B.Linen and when they do so, they either create an inhospitable environment for low acidity pathogens or just enhance groth of bacteria that consumes all the food of the pathogens and therefore starve them to death.

Do a little salt rubbing and wipe with vinegar, that should kill it. Add Geo and/or Yeast and B.Linen to your wash. I assume this is a 3% salt wash?

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 11:24:33 AM »
Do you have water beading on your box? Could this be it? Could this be something on the plastic net or the draining platform underneath it? Have you been using a clean cloth? Did you get this in contact with bread, bread crumbs (bread board/knife) vegetable or curing meat? Could be a cross contamination.

I would suggest to add some Geo or Yeast to the milk and/or the wash in such cheese. They prepare the surface and change its pH balance to enhance the growth of rind with B.Linen and when they do so, they either create an inhospitable environment for low acidity pathogens or just enhance groth of bacteria that consumes all the food of the pathogens and therefore starve them to death.

Do a little salt rubbing and wipe with vinegar, that should kill it. Add Geo and/or Yeast and B.Linen to your wash. I assume this is a 3% salt wash?
No cross contamination. I dry the condensation off the inside of the box with each wash cycle. I use latex gloves in an attempt to ward off any contamination from my hands.

I use a fresh 3% brine and new piece of cheesecloth for each wash cycle. The recipe called for the simple brine with no additional additives. I wanted to stay true to the recipe, but I think a little b. linens to the wash water won't hurt and may enhance the rind development. This isn't intended to be a Camembert, Reblochons, or similar oozy cheese.

I was looking for someone to identify what I've shown in the photos. Bad, good, or "who cares?". I was also looking to get a better idea whether the yellowish crusting rind is normal for the cultures I originally added to the milk.

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Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2010, 01:18:52 PM »
Does that star-shaped mold look like blue mold up close? Have you rubbed the surface of the cheese with coarse salt wet with a little vinegar to physically kind of "sand" the surface, then do your brine wash? I would also take the cheese out of the box and resterilize  the box and mats.
I have totally had similar experiences and have found from advice received here that getting a handle on these intruders earlier is better.
I just looked over the recipe from 200 Cheeses; did you air dry the cheese for 24 hours at room temp? The only growth from your inoculations ought to be the B. linens, which IMHO ought to be showing up pretty well by now.
Best of luck!
Pam

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 02:32:12 PM »
Does that star-shaped mold look like blue mold up close? Have you rubbed the surface of the cheese with coarse salt wet with a little vinegar to physically kind of "sand" the surface, then do your brine wash? I would also take the cheese out of the box and resterilize  the box and mats.
I have totally had similar experiences and have found from advice received here that getting a handle on these intruders earlier is better.
I just looked over the recipe from 200 Cheeses; did you air dry the cheese for 24 hours at room temp? The only growth from your inoculations ought to be the B. linens, which IMHO ought to be showing up pretty well by now.
Best of luck!
Pam

I did air dry at room temp for 24 hours following the brining, then into the minicave for a week before beginning my washing.

So can I conclude from your comments that what I'm seeing shouldn't be there and that the surface should be somewhat smooth with no dark spots at all and no stars, grey dips, etc.? I don't know what blue mold looks like and I don't know what b. linens should look like. Anyone have any pictures so I can identify clearly what I have now and what I should have?

I'm thinking there might not be any photos available of a straight b. linens rind without having some geo, yeast, or something else in the mix.

Unless I hear otherwise, it looks like I'll be scrubbing the wrinkly skin away along with the dark spots, stars, and grey dips. And yes, I'll also be sterilizing the box, rack, and mat. Finally, I didn't want to, but I'll be dosing the brine wash with b. linens to make sure it overtakes anything else that has a yen for setting up house.

I've dealt with rind invaders before so I know what to do if I'm doing something that is not washed-rind, smear-ripened, or mold-ripened like a Gouda, Jarlsberg, or Edam. My problem is that I don't know what I should leave alone and what I should remove with the b. linens in the cheese. I don't want to remove stuff if it's supposed to be there. Ahh, ignorance is not bliss!  :-\

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Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

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Re: My first washed-rind cheese . . . Esrom
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2010, 02:52:32 PM »
There is a picture of my munster in this thread:http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,4295.msg32853.html#msg32853
All I added to this cheese was B. linens. It has a few spots of unwanted guests but it's a pretty good example of a B. linens rind. I don't usually have to brine with B. linens if I've put it in the milk, but I have on occasion.
So, yes, I don't think all the other stuff should be there. In a perfect world, it would be covered by a beautiful orange-colored mold and nothing else!
Is the wrinkly skin damp? Or loose?