Author Topic: whey in hoops  (Read 2796 times)

clherestian

  • Guest
whey in hoops
« on: July 19, 2010, 02:24:58 PM »
I noticed that some recipes, like Tallegio, call for ladling both curds and whey into the hoops. Why is that? How would the end product differ if the curds were drained prior to hooping?

Brie

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 03:49:30 AM »
There is a general consensus within this cheese community to drain the curds in a bag before ladeling--shortens the draining time in hoop with no appreciable difference in the make. Also, most hoops cannot handle the amount of curds and whey combined. Good luck and post results!

MarkShelton

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 12:30:20 PM »
I wouldn't say a general consensus... I don't use a draining bag myself. It may shorten the draining in the hoop, but but that's just because it's draining somewhere else (in the bag). I've never had any problems draining completely in the hoop, and it seems like just one more step to bag it then hoop it later.

Actually, I thought clherestian was asking a different question. Did you mean draining the supernatant whey (just the big pool on the top) before ladling into molds? Or did you mean what is the point of making sure to ladle whey along with the curds just so that it can run straight out?

clherestian

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 03:11:42 PM »
I mean what is the point of ladling in the whey just to have it run back out. It must have some affect on the final cheese.

MarkShelton

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 09:30:32 PM »
That I'm not quite sure. It may have something to do with keeping the curd warm in the hoops, or helping the curd knit together, but I'd have to look into it. Does anybody else know?

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 03:08:31 AM »
Ladling into the hoop allows the curds to develop more acidity while the "food source" for the bacteria slowly drains away. A draining bag would drain too quickly and the starter bacteria would have less lactose available.

I ladle Stilton curds into a draining bag because the uncooked curds are very fragile. However, the bag sits in my make pot, whey collects and the curds continue to sit submerged in their own whey. That sounds counterproductive, but once curds are cut, they continue to expel whey even when submerged.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2010, 03:37:21 AM »
+1 Sailor, completely agree. Ladling both curds and whey always gives me a softer, more delectable final paste for this cheese style for me, presumably because of the extra food in the whey, faster acid development, and more fat retention.

clherestian

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 01:33:58 PM »
So, ladling whey and curds make for a more acidic, softer paste?

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 02:18:06 PM »
Does for me. I also think there's less calcium retained, so it "flows" better when ripe. You need the right PF for this to work, though, and the right total solids in milk. It doesn't work so well for thin milk because the moisture is too high in the curds, that I drain a little.

Sailor Con Queso

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 02:19:51 PM »
Ladling curds is NOT something that you want to do with every cheese so you need to follow your recipes. However in general, yes, as curds sit in whey the bacteria continue to "feed" on the lactose and produce lactic acid. Here are a few basic concepts:

1- After rennet, the longer you wait before cutting curds, the more moisture that the curds retain. You have control over the final "paste" by simply controlling the curd set time. Just because you have a "clean break" doesn't mean that it is time to cut curds. If you cut too early, your finished cheese will be drier and harder. So when making Parmesan for example you can create a hard, dry Parm by cutting early or a softer, slicing Parm by letting the curds sit longer before cutting. Search the forum for Flocculation and read every post about the technique.

2- The smaller the curds are cut, the more whey that is expelled. Larger curds produce cheese with more moisture. So uncut ladled curds will retain a LOT of moisture and create a softer cheese. For some cheeses, the pH at draining is critical to getting great results.

3- After cutting and cooking, the longer you wait to drain, the more acidic the curds become. Again, when you drain, you are taking away the food source for the starter bacteria. So, you have control over the final acidity and texture of the finished cheese by simply changing the timing for draining.

Cheesemaking is not about following recipes. You need to know what's going on at every step of the way and how to control the outcomes.

velward

  • Guest
Re: whey in hoops
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 06:57:33 PM »
I don't know what I would do without you guys, I learn something new every time I log on. Now I know why my cheddar is a little dry, Thanks