Raw Milk Rennet Coagulation - Curds Foamy & No Clean Break!!

[ancksunamun]

I decided to try a Farmhouse cheddar tonight and got to the stage of adding rennet and waiting for my clean cut but my curds have gone almost foamy and have not formed a curd really at all. They are very odd. Almost fluffy and could be stirred back up to a thick curdled milk.

Is there any saving this? This is the first time it has happened. I have successfully made a dozen other batches of cheese.

Would more rennet and another hour save it?

What causes this?

[9mmruger]

Foamy?  Using fresh milk?  Almost sounds like some type of contamination.  Did the whey separate eventually?

[ancksunamun]

  Thank you for replying.

Yes, fresh cows milk. Only 1 day old.

The whey did seperate  but it was very yellow and milky so I imagine all the fats etc have left the curd. I did proceed to cook the curd (which was very spongey) and go ahead and press it though it was definitely a very broken curd, almost ricotto like.

What type of contamination would cause that. I work with as sterile environment as I can but maybe something did get in?

[ancksunamun]

So I have just taken this cheese out of the press and it seems to have pressed fine. The proof will be in the tasting in a few months.

I'm not sure what it is now as I kind of just ran with a bit of a 'turn it into something plan'. Who knows? Could be my best cheese yet.

I am trying another batch today and seem to have the same problem, although it is at least forming a solid 'block' of curd it looks like it is still spongey and won't 'clean' cut.

Looking through the forum, is it possible it is a bad combination of acid mixes with the milk and the flora danica starter. Should I try another starter next time for cheddar and monteray?

I have previously used store brought milk and made gouda with flora danica with no problems.


I really appreciate any and all help. 

[MrsKK]

Is the milk starting to set up or curdle before you add your rennet?  I've had a similar issue with curd formation when I've waited too long after adding the culture to add the rennet.  It could also be from using too much culture.

If you post your method (amounts of ingredients, temperatures used, times in between steps, etc.), it will help a lot in answering questions.

[9mmruger]

Not having access to fresh milk, I am not sure what to add.  Post your methods and times.  Something may ring a bell.  If your luck is like mine however, It will probably turn out to be a very good cheese. 

[ancksunamun]

I used the Monteray Jack recipe from this site, which is also basically the same as the Ricki Carroll recipe.

After cooking the curds they did firm up and become squeeky which I took as a good sign. I pressed the cheese and it has pressed well but I suspect again, that I have lost a lot of moisture and fats as the whey was very milky again. The curds ended up quite small also (due to not really being a solid curd) so no doubt it will be a crumbly number at best.

I'm thinking I might play with shorter ripening times next go round although my milk source will be different from now on so maybe the acid levels will also be different. I will also be EXACT measuring my culture to see if that makes a difference, though I am pretty accurate with that anyway.

To answer one of the questions, the milk doesn't start setting BEFORE the rennet goes in, but it does begin to set well inside the suggested minute of stirring.

I get more milk on the 10th of August so can't wait to try again and experiment a bit, and hopefully get a bit more success next time. My fiance brought me a dedicated cheese cave so I really need to get on with filling it now! 

[Sailor Con Queso]

You should search the forum and read up on flocculation. This is a technique that lets you see what's going on and make adjustments to your milk/acid/rennet relationship. Basically after you add the rennet you float a small sanitized bowl on top of the milk. The milk has "flocculated" when you can no longer gently spin the bowl. This is the beginning of true curd set and will be very obvious - like getting stuck in pudding. The time that it takes from adding rennet, to when the bowl will not spin is referred to as the flocculation point. This should be anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes depending on your personal style (too much rennet causes bitterness).

You said that the milk was starting to set in under a minute. That's NOT good and can be caused by several things.

• Too much acid caused by too much starter or ripening for too long. Can also be old milk with excess bacteria.
• Milk temperature too high during ripening.
• Too much rennet.

Your problem is most likely one or more of these factors. If you are using raw milk, cut your starter by 25-50%. Unpasteurized milk has natural bacteria in it so you simply don't need as much starter. A pH meter really helps understand what happens next, but milk should be a pH of 6.6-6.7. After you add the starter you ripen until you get a LITTLE pH drop of say .1. NO MORE THAN THAT. Rennet needs a little acid to work efficiently, but too much acid will backfire.

Chances are you are using way too much rennet. What brand & type of rennet are you using? Some rennets are double strength so double check the label for instructions. Call your supplier and ask. Based on your "under a minute" statement, I would cut your rennet dosage in half, use the spinning bowl technique and see what happens. Time it and let us know your results. If it's under 10 or 12 minutes, cut back some more next time. You should be getting a killer curd set with fresh milk.

[ancksunamun]

Thank you again Sailor! Your help is awesome!

I'm thinking it might be more of the first option as I am using my rennet exactly to instruction (5mls diluted in 5 mls water). It is generic rennet from a well known cheesemaking supply here in New Zealand and has worked perfectly in the past.

In regards to the temperature during ripening I am pedantic about that part so less likely to be this option but I will make sure to keep an eye on it next time.

Everyone's help has led me to the strategy of reducing my starter and my ripening time on my next batch. I will take precise notes during the process and let you know how I go.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!   

[Sailor Con Queso]

I question the dilution that you are using for your rennet - 5 mil in 5 mil of water (1 to 1) is not standard practice for  animal rennet. I would probably go for 50 mil of water. The reason for diluting in water is so the rennet can evenly disperse throughout your milk before it starts setting. I stir vigorously for about 15 seconds then use the spoon to stop all movement.

The water that you use can sometimes be a problem. Are you on city water, well water...? I have city water but double carbon filter it. Some people use distilled water.

[ancksunamun]

Well I'm convinced now that my rennet might be off.

I tried a Romano today with store brought milk and a new culture and got the same result. I even diluted my rennet in 1/4 cup of water as Sailor suggested and got the same curd with no clean break. I left it for nearly 2 hours wondering if perhaps it just needed longer but alas........

The culture measure was perfect, the ripening time shorter, temperature was maintained perfectly, the milk was fresh and the same milk I made a perfect Gouda with and the culture was brand new.

I just wish I knew what was going on. I will try new rennet but failing that, I'm a little lost.

[Mondequay]

Sailor mentioned water. I think it is valuable to test the pH of your water. I use a water filter at the tap and although I set it to 'non-alkalize' when I tested it was still very alkaline. I think this may have caused me some trouble in the past.

[ancksunamun]

Well sometimes one should look within the box, rather than outside of it too often (I'm an IT Geek, I can't help it!).

It came down to my rennet being the common link in all (3) my bad batches so I decided to replace it. It's not even a year old but I wonder how long my cheesemaking tutor had it before she sold it to me?

I had an opporunity to get 10 litres of my preferred store brought milk (my raw source is still a week away after calving) at half price but I needed to use it within a few days. Getting Rennet takes at least 4 (and the $15 shipping on a $14 product irks me!) so I decided to give basic old Supermarket Renco a go. $2.58 and nothing to lose.

OMG! I could have cried with delight last night when I had the most perfect lovely curd! Cheesemaking suddenly returned to the fun, fascinating, happy hobby I had been enjoying  , although I felt a little silly that I hadn't just tried a new rennet after the 2nd bad batch.  I assumed my rennet had more life left in it given I had achieved a perfect break only a week earlier with it.

Thank you so much for all your help. I have certainly learnt a lot, even with the solution being slightly different.   

[Sailor Con Queso]

Wait to hang in there Anck (what should we call you?). It's all about the little things. Read up on flocculation, it will really help you understand the milk / rennet relationship. IT geek huh?

[ancksunamun]

Anck is just fine Sailor!

I took your advice re: studying flocculation and gave it a go with my last bad batch but of course it didn't really help me much due to the impending failure. Last night I was just so tentative about whether the rennet was going to be the answer that I forgot to try again but I will DEFINITELY do so next batch. I like the idea of having a bit more insight rather than finger crossing and hoping.