Author Topic: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions  (Read 2574 times)

Mondequay

  • Guest
Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« on: August 05, 2010, 03:16:21 PM »
I'm trying to keep a calendar of dates when cheeses are aged properly for tasting/eating. My question is when does aging time begin? For instance, I made a manchego; does aging start the day it is created? after brining? Or for other cheeses, after drying as in several days later than the day of creation? I guess if you are aging for many months that it is not so important but in the case of the manchego I'd like to be a little more accurate in my dates.

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 03:21:18 PM »
I'm trying to keep a calendar of dates when cheeses are aged properly for tasting/eating. My question is when does aging time begin? For instance, I made a manchego; does aging start the day it is created? after brining? Or for other cheeses, after drying as in several days later than the day of creation? I guess if you are aging for many months that it is not so important but in the case of the manchego I'd like to be a little more accurate in my dates.

Technically, aging begins the moment any rennet touches any proteins in the milk. The suggestions for length of aging are just a continuum and a suggestion because people's environments differ and there are so many more factors in addition to time that determine the degree of flavor, aroma, and paste development. So what I'm trying to say is that being exact in something like this only works when you compare a cheese you made earlier in the same conditions vs a cheese you make later, because your environment is unique. Also, 1-2 days does not make a huge difference. It's more about tipping points in aging based on relative percentage of the proteins broken down, and those vary among makes; you can't time it to the exact day, more like a general range.

coffee joe

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 09:49:50 PM »
This brings us to topic of Affinage. How does one tell how long is right? How to know if a cheese can continue to improve with more age?
I realize that there are years of experience to get this part really right, but where do we start looking?

linuxboy

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 09:59:33 PM »
This brings us to topic of Affinage. How does one tell how long is right?

By taste using a trier, or by projection of the batch based on past knowledge of aging times for the cheese style. Alternatively, you can be more exact about it and measure the degree of protein degradation in the final cheese and pull to sell when a certain percentage has been broken down by cell proteases.


Quote
How to know if a cheese can continue to improve with more age?

This is a somewhat relative measure because improvement may result in more intense flavors, but if consumers are not used to it, sales will be tough.

The first indicator is calcium, though, which is determined by whey drain pH. A high calcium cheese has the theoretical structure necessary to age. Calcium is like the framing in a house.

Second indicator is moisture in non-fat. Moisture has a lot to do with rate of maturation. Low moisture cheeses take longer and mature more slowly. A high moisture (above ~38%) usually will not last more than a year unless you store at cold temps.

Beyond that, you taste it. With experience, you can tell when a cheese will age well. It's like with winemaking. I know guys who will go out to the vineyard and taste the grape and tell to the half day when acidity and Brix are perfectly balanced for the varietal. Then they can taste green wine and know how to blend it to achieve a 3-year, 5-year and N year drinkeability.

When you taste cheese for long term aging, what you're looking for underlying body and rate of flavor development. After 60 days, a cheese with extreme or moderate flavor usually does not age well. A cheese with some flavor and inklings of aroma ages slower and will be better over time.

Finally, there are the theoretical expectations for how long aging takes based on the culture selection.
Quote
I realize that there are years of experience to get this part really right, but where do we start looking?

Hope that helps. Start by keeping a notebook and tasting cheeses at various points in their life, and writing down what you smell, taste, feel, and sense. Over time, you'll know how to spot good cheeses with aging potential based on how they are young. Have to train the palate.

Mondequay

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 10:23:51 PM »
Thanks for the answers, Linuxboy. My first thought was to try manchego fresco at 5 days but missed that by a long shot because it is so pretty I just like to look at it! Second, I wanted to be mindful of the 60 day rule for raw milk cheeses especially when entertaining guests. I guess I can let some of my control issues go on this one!
Chrisitne

Groves

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 10:30:18 PM »
I wanted to be mindful of the 60 day rule for raw milk cheeses especially when entertaining guests.

If I could get a better explanation of this.

I realize that the govt types are keen on a 60 day age for raw milk cheese, and that you're looking for the harmful bacteria to die, which they will in that 60 days.

Is it safe to say that if you're ok with drinking raw milk that you'll do fine with less than 60day raw milk cheese?

Or is there more of a risk with raw milk cheese than with raw milk itself?

coffee joe

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 11:26:24 PM »
I may not know much about cheese yet, but as to the safety issue I may be a help.
Know your milk if you intend to eat a 15 day Raw Milk Camembert or to drink the fresh raw milk. There is no real difference so far as risk to your health. Any likely contaminants are most likely present in the milk, not in the cheese making process.

Raw milk from a Grade A dairy, the odds are truly in your favor.

The US and a few other countries have developed very strict Milk regulations, which may have had their place in times gone by, when other quality controls and herd health controls were not around yet.

As many threads on this forum have explained, Pasteurization is not a 100% guarantee of safety. If the sole criteria is safety, a well aged raw milk cheese is safer than a pasteurized glass of fresh milk.

Groves

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2010, 11:30:11 PM »
I know my milk, and the cow. Drink it every day.

It's good to hear. I don't really want my blue to wait 60days to get devoured. Nice to know my risk isn't greater. Thanks.

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Lakewood, Washington
  • Posts: 5,015
  • Cheeses: 344
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 06:31:33 AM »
I'm trying to keep a calendar of dates when cheeses are aged properly for tasting/eating. My question is when does aging time begin? For instance, I made a manchego; does aging start the day it is created? after brining? Or for other cheeses, after drying as in several days later than the day of creation? I guess if you are aging for many months that it is not so important but in the case of the manchego I'd like to be a little more accurate in my dates.
Quite a few of us make a wheel and then, after a certain period, cut it into fourths. One fourth is for immediate tasting/esting and the other three get vacuum-bagged or waxed to continue aging. That allows a stepped aging/tasting.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Mondequay

  • Guest
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2010, 12:43:09 PM »
Boofer, I think I will adopt that method to quarters soon. Do you need to dry the pieces again before sealing/waxing?

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Lakewood, Washington
  • Posts: 5,015
  • Cheeses: 344
  • Contemplating cheese
Re: Aging Start Date & Affinage Questions
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2010, 01:51:09 PM »
I've just cut them and sealed them. The less time they spend exposed...the better.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.