Which cow breeds should I lean towards?

[Tar]

well, Joe
I' am 6000 miles away and even in here I'm no expert!
If cheese is a goal and costs are important tnen Jersey is a winer! So Jeresy bull should solve the problem? 50% Jersey should adapt easy? and 75% will folow ?...............
There was corn(maize) silage mentioned. For some time shorgum is pushing corn out all ower the world. It has beter yeld with same costs or same yeld with lower costs. Great silage and it is great for green forage. It is drought resistant...........
By the way silage is not recomended when hard cheese is a goal ?

[CdnMorganGal]

Coffee Joe - Thank you - you've given a lot of good information - a bit of information overload actually LOL - but certainly points I will be mulling over as we develop our property and my cheesemaking skills!

Would love to see pictures of CdnMorganGal's  place.

Here ya go - 2 of them

[CdnMorganGal]

I don't need silage - even in the dry season our pastures are green.

We will be subdividing our pasture, eventually, and will look into replanting with the peanut/pea legumes. Poco a poco.  We've only had the property for 2 years and there is still a lot of basic stuff to do.

CoffeeJoe - why buy a pasteurizer when you can use what you have in the kitchen?  I also need to take into account the high electricity costs here - that's why we switched from an electric to gas stove.

[coffee joe]

I don't need silage - even in the dry season our pastures are green.

As I expected, your place is identical topography to ours. And you don't need to worry about silage for less than 20 cows. A cow should however, have easy access to forage at least 20 cm/8" deep. Unlike a horse, a cow uses her tongue to gather feed.
Properly preparing one hectare is all you will need to insure high quality feedstock for up to 12 animals year around.
 

[Tar]

I don't need silage - even in the dry season our pastures are green.

My mistake.  It was Joe who mentioned maize silage....

........
Properly preparing one hectare is all you will need to insure high quality feedstock for up to 12 animals year around. 

I find it hard to belive. Simple too good to be truth.
In here 1 ha is just enough for 12 goats in intensive farming. No grazing but intensive tillage and fertilization. 15 goats is top if one has spring crop, for istance pea, and then Sudan grass and/or Sorghum for the rest of the season for instance on 1/2 ha and some good yelding legumes on the second half.........
But remember that one cow eats like 10 goats!

[coffee joe]

Tar,

We regularly milk 180-200 liters/day on 1 hectare with 12 cows in rotational grazing management of 22 pickets of 450 M² each. It is done in many tropical countries, Costa Rica included.

[Tar]

Tar,

We regularly milk 180-200 liters/day on 1 hectare with 12 cows in rotational grazing management of 22 pickets of 450 M² each. It is done in many tropical countries, Costa Rica included.

It is obvious that you know what are you talking about : crossbreeding, rotational grazing, wich are necessary tools for good results.
Still I am  confused......
I am in proces of buying a farm here, so I had to do lots of math. My interest is in goats but most data is about cows and here is what I found:
H igh quality feedstock daily intake is  2-3 % body weight on DM(dry matter) basis. 2% for dry cows and 3% for cows in lactation(20 lbs.milk daily per cow). Assuming that 25% of animals are dry the average daily DM intake per cow is 2.75% body weight.
Averaga cow is 1200 lbs. So average daily intake is 33 lbs DM basis.
For  12 animals it is 396 lbs DM daily. That is  144540 lbs a year. (cca 65.6 tons)
Grassis have average water contents of 85%. DM is 15% .
So for  144540 lbs  DM GM(green matter) yeld has to be  819060 lbs or 372 tons/ha !
Is it  possibile?  Even in tropics ?
 For instance sorghum is tropical & subtropical hight yelding crop. But recor crop is achived in China 135 tons GM/ha, and just a little less in Europe (Croatia) 130 tons/ha. Intensive tillage and very intensive ferilisation (manure + NPK)  + beter rain distribution since there is no rain or dry season.
And even if 372 tons/ha is possibile, that would be enough only in theory since in grazed fild effective yeld is smaller.

[coffee joe]

Tar ,

Where are you located? Information such as Topography, Latitude and Altitude are important in choosing the best system for raising dairy animals. Further information obtained by soil analysis will determine what type of fertilization you will need.
  720 Kg/day of green forage(60Kg/Animal Unit/day) is enough for 12 cows and easily produced in 1 hectare if water and fertilization are adequate. The problem in large areas is the waste that happens when cows trample a large percentage. This is the advantage of making small areas.
Every grass has a different growth cycle. Tifton is 21 days, Brachiaria 33 days. One picket for each day of growth cycle+1, with a minimum of 35 M²/AU/day.
With the breed of cow chosen, adequate and adapted to your climate, this system produces a rolling average of 15Kg milk/AU/day with very little in additional feed required.

Goats do well in this system as well, but the numbers are different. I have no experience with goats or sheep but a vet can help. The idea is the same, more AU/Ha.

[coffee joe]

As cows leave one picket trashed after a single day, in 21 days when they return, it is all green and deep.

A picture of our calf rearing area.

[Tar]

Tar ,
Where are you located? Information such as Topography, Latitude and Altitude are important in choosing the best system for raising dairy animals. Further information obtained by soil analysis will determine what type of fertilization you will need. .......

As I said, 6000 miles away, Europe, Balkan, Serbia.......Here climate is continental with cold winters (few days with -10°C or sub.) In summer  30-35, sometaimes to 40°C.
I am familiar with rotational grazing. In here we do not use permanent "pickets".Becouse the procedure is diferent . For instance : first  you have Alfalfa for a few yares, then corn  or barley or..., then grass legume mixture as long as legume is OK.....So we use electric fence more often.

[coffee joe]

I will keep to my semi tropical climate! I do love to get to the snow once a year, I prefer it not come to me.
   Electric fence is the best option and we are changing over. If one were to be starting from scratch, there is no need for fixed wire fencing. Electric is far cheaper and soon the cows don't even get close.

[Tar]

Back to cheese.
Once it was only quantity of milk, then quantity+buterfat%, now it is  quantity+ quality( protein+fat%).When we talk about cheese then it is all about milk quality. In the first place it is question  of genetics  but cheesemakers who produce their own milk  know that  fat% can be significantly rised with hight quality forage. Unfortunately   protein%  is not responding so well. It is 99% genetics.  And that’s not all. Among proteins casein is the most important. Now we know that there are a few varietets of casein . Some beter then others for cheese making...................
For high  quality cheese making it is important to choose breed with high quality milk. With goats Sannen is Holstain, Alpina is Simental,  but quality is with Anglo-Nubians from USA & GB and Mursia-Granadas from Spain. When it comes to cows, I’m guessing Jersey is one.

[ConnieG]

Now I know NOTHING of raising cattle in such climates - though the thread is very interesting to read. 
I noticed you said that your neighbor has a Guernsey.  I am partial to the Guernseys and bought one just for their exceptional milk quality for cheese.  They have a hight fat content, produce in volumes, and their milk is usually A2/A2.  Holsteins on the other hand produce a low fat milk.  You have to be careful on the temperament of a Jersey - some can be pretty ornery. 

The downside of the Guernsey is the feed.  They don't forage well in any climate - they are a cow to be fed.  And they do eat a lot as they are a large breed.  The Normandy sounded interesting - I don't know anything about those.

As for keeping a bull as a newcomer to things Bovine the advice is generally against it.  Dairy Bulls are, for some reason, particularly mean and dangerous.

[FarmerJd]

Dairy Bulls are, for some reason, particularly mean and dangerous

I believe the reason for this is the fact that alot of them were bottle fed since they were taken from their moms early on. They just grow up with a different relationship with humans. I have been around the mean dairy bull types alot, but I have seen the same traits in beef cows raised on a bottle. Just an observation. I have had 2 acquaintances killed by bull attacks and each bull was bottle fed. Could be coincidence, but makes you wonder. Just my .02.

[ConnieG]

FarmerJed, I think you are right.  I know a dairyman who, when keeping a bull calf, coordinates with his beef raising neighbor and grafts the dairy bull calf to a beef cow and out in pasture or range land so it's wild.  He says when he brings that bull in to use it, the bull turns away from him rather than toward him.  For me, AI is the way to go.  I get a selection of the best bulls around for a fraction of what it costs to keep an animal.

Wow, that's awful to know two people killed by bulls.  I'm so sorry  :'(