Set to Start first Camembert & Petit Brie this weekend?

[Melle12]

Hi!
I am new to cheese making, and so far I have made 30 min Mozz, Paneer, 2 farmhouse cheddars, and 1 monterey jack, and this weekend I am set to make my first Camembert and Brie.  My supplies just arrived from cheesemaking.com- 2 cam molds, packet of flora danica, and penicillium candidum packet.  Of course, now I'm confused.  I have read the recipe in Ricky's book and on this site, and I read the packet of penicillium- how do I do this?  The packet of penicillium says to add when adding the culture, which is what the recipe on this site says, but the books says to "rehydrate" and mist the cheeses while they are resting.
So, what do I do?  Do I add when I add the flora danica?  If I need to rehydrate, do I just at water, does it need to sit in the fridge for 10-15 hours as Ricky suggests?

Thanks so much for all your help elsewhere on this forum and on this particular question (sorry if it's a silly one of if it's been asked a bunch).  On the upside, I have a 4.5 GE fridge, and today I got a $13 mini humidifier at Walmart that has already improved my cave for these soft cheeses!
M

[linuxboy]

Add to milk with culture. Did Steve give you his recipe? It's pretty decent.

[Melle12]

Thanks Linuxboy- I have the camembert and brie recipes from Home Cheese Making (Ricki Carroll), and for comparison, I have the camembert recipe from cheeseforum.com.  For my few other cheeses, I have referenced the book, these forums, and the recipes on cheeseforum.com to get a more picture of each step.  Maybe I can search the boards for Steve's recipe?

[Melle12]

I searched- I am guessing you were referring to the thecheesemaker.com.  Another reference tool worth having available?  Thanks!

[linuxboy]

Yep, Steve Shapson. He does a decent job; few technical explanations but writing is alright. Not sure his recipes are here; he tends to charge for everything. He has an account on these forums, though. Send him an e-mail and see if he'll e-mail it to you.

Peter Dixon's recipe is comprehensive in terms of the commercial approach

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_camembert.shtml

Alex has a decent one here, too. I make mine like Peter Dixon, except I use all traditional techniques (no repasteurization) and slower bacteria. Also, my mold schedule is different and I add the molds to the milk.

[Melle12]

Thanks once again- I had only planned to use the flora danica and the penicillium candidum, and I am wondering if what I am missing by leaving out the geotrichum candidum?  Is there any benefit to adding the penincillium with the culture and spraying it on as well?

[linuxboy]

what I am missing by leaving out the geotrichum candidum? 

Flavor, aroma, and surface acidity neutralization for faster P candidum growth. P candidum growth should be rapid to create protection for the cheese in the form of a rind. Geo also will provide protection again mucor.

Is there any benefit to adding the penincillium with the culture and spraying it on as well?

Not really, it's just more work. Adding it to the milk should be enough. Spraying is used just as a process method and to create a specific ripening sequence and profile, it provides no distinct advantage.

[Melle12]

Once again- thanks, very helpful.  I will wait on the brie and cams until I can get a supply of geotrichum.

[linuxboy]

It's not strictly necessary. Most commercial bries and cams are made with candidum only (especially stabilized ones). Try it by itself; it makes a rather nice basic cheese. If you use raw milk, you can produce quite a delectable treat.

Candidum by itself will also help you avoid slip skin. Geo can be finicky.

[Melle12]

Hmmm...well now you have me on the fence- I was looking forward to my first brie and camembert, but I want to make sure I do everything I can to make them good.  I do use quality raw milk for all my cheeses, so perhaps I will give this weekend a go and use the geo in my next batches.  I can't tell you how helpful this has been, so Thanks.  You have obviously been doing this quite a while- do you have a go to for recipe/guides (the site you gave me?) or do you just know at this point?  I noted Steve mentions on his site that he doesn't just use the flora danica but adds in some meso starter- do you do the same?

[linuxboy]

You should go ahead and make a batch . Then make another. And then one more. And and and... It'll be good both ways, just different. Take notes so you can compare and contrast and see what you like.

"Good" is such a varied term in cheesemaking. The mold choice will influence the layers and flavor profile, but not drastically. It's like the difference between using tahitian vanilla and bourbon vanilla. They're different, but similar. But still both are good.

I have all the recipes either written down in my notes or on my site. I started doing this before Word processing made taking notes easy . I'm trying to convert everything to recipes and howtos on my site, but it takes a long time to do everything. When using raw milk, I mix morning and evening milks, and let it ripen for 2-3 hours naturally until pH is 6.5 (for cow) or 6.35-6.4 (for goat, although I prefer full lactic bloomy rind for goat milk). Basically, a .05-.1 drop. Then I use lactic, cremoris, and diacetylactis culture, but not leuconostoc, and culture it at 88-90F milk. If using pasteurized milk, yes, I do use FD to preripen (milk 75F, ambient room temp 72-75). They point you ladle the curds is crucial to the final cheese paste consistency, as is the PF ratio. It must have .85-.9 PF, or it will start to be too runny.

[Melle12]

OK...I'm sold... I will got ahead and do a batch of camemberts today and brie tomorrow.  I have been keeping a notebook since the beginning and converting it to Word when I feel like it.  I am using raw cows milk that I buy from a neighbor.  Unfortunately, I haven't found a local source for goats milk yet, but that can't be far in the future.  Also, I haven't invested in a pH meter yet, though that can't be far off either- from the boards, I have one picked out, but have yet to shell out the $110+.  Since I have been in the start-up phase, I have spent on molds, cheese clothes, pans, cultures, wax, rennet, a fridge, and soap supplies (fun to work on while the cheese is setting).  So a meter isn't really that much of a stretch or a press for that matter...and I'm sure I will need something after that.

[Melle12]

Well, I have my 1 gallon=2 camemberts setting up in the molds now.  They didn't fill the molds, which seems like a bad sign and they are shrinking fast- I'll add the picture I took as soon as I filled and the one from 25 minutes later.  I'll keep my fingers crossed- used 1 gallon raw cows milk, 1/2 packet meso starter, 1/4 t flora, 1/32 t penecillium then added 1/8 tablet veg rennet diluted in 1/4 c spring water.

[Mondequay]

Are the molds 4.5 inch? That's what I planned to use, too. Maybe I'll try 2 gallons milk to 3 molds.
Christine

[Melle12]

Hi Christine,
They are 4.25" by 4.25" from www.cheesemaking.com (http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/p/47-Camembert-1.html).  This is my first time making camemberts, and I am so early in my cheese making in general, so I may have done something wrong.  They have really shrunk down, and I am about to pull them for salting and cooling- they look good, but I guess I won't know how I did for a while.  I've got my fingers crossed- it's my Grandmother's favorite kind of cheese, so I hope to nail it soon.   Tomorrow I Plan to make a 1/2 gallon (1 mold) of brie- we'll see.
Keeping my fingers crossed!