Author Topic: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening  (Read 5210 times)

susanky

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Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« on: September 21, 2010, 11:00:41 PM »
I've read alot of the archives on this topic but now I am more confused.  Some say use it when it is as fresh as possible.  Others say it doesn't have enough bacteria straight from the store.  Let sit 8-12 hrs at room temp first, then freeze.  It is is sitting open in the fridge will the bacteria multiply (will it ripen) just at a slower pace?  If so, isn't a bit older better?

Also, I saw a recipe (with pictures!  Thanks!)  of making your own starter adding buttermilk 1:3 or 1:4 with milk and letting it sit out. But the pic showed Kroger brand buttermilk.  I bought that once.  It had all sorts of gums, tapioca starch and I don't know what all.  Does that not matter?  I've made an effort to get one without all that.  But is that necessary? 
Susan

linuxboy

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 11:26:45 PM »
I've read a lot of the archives on this topic but now I am more confused.  Some say use it when it is as fresh as possible.

Yes, also if making yourself refrigerate as soon a pH hits 4.7.

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  Others say it doesn't have enough bacteria straight from the store.

Who says that? it's wrong. From the store, you are a race against time to get the freshest (latest expiration date) cultured buttermilk possible.

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  Let sit 8-12 hrs at room temp first, then freeze.

Well, if you're using the buttermilk as a mother culture and are making your own buttermilk, then yes, you need to let that fresh batch do its thing, and then freeze. But not the store stuff, you use that as is.

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  It is is sitting open in the fridge will the bacteria multiply (will it ripen) just at a slower pace?

In the fridge, the bacteria are slowly dying. No, there is zero multiplication, maybe a few thousand stray bacteria still have enough umph, but generally there's no multiplying in the fridge.
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  If so, isn't a bit older better?

No, use the freshest you can.
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Also, I saw a recipe (with pictures!  Thanks!)  of making your own starter adding buttermilk 1:3 or 1:4 with milk and letting it sit out. But the pic showed Kroger brand buttermilk.  I bought that once.  It had all sorts of gums, tapioca starch and I don't know what all.  Does that not matter?

Not really, that's just to prevent separation of the whey in buttermilk. So long as it's cultured, you're good to go. :)

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I've made an effort to get one without all that.  But is that necessary? 

Only if you have an ethical objection to the additives. They make little difference for a starter.

susanky

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 12:31:15 AM »
WOW!  That is fantastic.  I'm starting to get it.  So maybe it is the fresh buttermilk I need to freeze if not using it immediately.  Does that do any harm?  But tell me about this post.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15.msg18.html#msg18

There were several similar posts.  It seems to contradict some of this.  Or do I misunderstand?
Susan

linuxboy

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 12:35:12 AM »
There's no contradiction. What you're after are bacteria. The milk is a food source and medium for the bacteria to grow. Store buttermilk has bacteria. You can use store buttermilk as is, but the bacteria may be dead if the buttermilk is old. The way to fix this is to culture your own fresh batch.

When you culture a fresh batch, you are giving bacteria the food and environment they need by giving them fresh milk. so they go crazy. Then as the acidity increases, they reach saturation for that milk medium. And you always want to freeze the freshest bacteria possible, that's why you reculture the store buttermilk.

Groves

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 01:56:09 AM »
And if you make your own butter, what is the liquid that you pour off? If that's not cultured buttermilk, do they call it fresh buttermilk? Redneck buttermilk? Uncouth buttermilk? Plebian? Boorish?

If I have the liquid left over from buttermaking, is THAT the stuff you need to leave out until the pH hits 4.7 ?

linuxboy

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 02:10:15 AM »
Yes, but that is more like using whey starter, and it only works if you make cultured butter. Or possibly raw butter that has natural bacteria.

Groves

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 02:14:08 AM »
and it only works if you make cultured butter.

I'm very unfamiliar with this "cultured butter".

I think I hear you, though, that the butter-whey left over when using the cream from raw cow's milk to make butter is.....basically useless in the world of cheesemaking?

susanky

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 10:52:03 AM »
There's no contradiction. What you're after are bacteria. The milk is a food source and medium for the bacteria to grow. Store buttermilk has bacteria. You can use store buttermilk as is, but the bacteria may be dead if the buttermilk is old. The way to fix this is to culture your own fresh batch.

When you culture a fresh batch, you are giving bacteria the food and environment they need by giving them fresh milk. so they go crazy. Then as the acidity increases, they reach saturation for that milk medium. And you always want to freeze the freshest bacteria possible, that's why you reculture the store buttermilk.

susanky

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 10:58:32 AM »
Oh crud.  Trying to learn how to post a quote.  Clearly don't have that down either :P

But regarding that post as above.  I get the last paragraph of that preious link where it says add some buttermilk to fresh milk to keep the starter going/make more.  But the first part of the instructions say just let you plain buttermilk sit at room temp (no milk added) for several hours because there is not enough bacteria in it straight from the store.  That is where I see the contraindication and where I am confused.

I have been working on cultured butter.  I made a batch with buttermilk.  Then two batches each with a different type of yogurt that had different cultures.  One of the yogurt ones got contaminated ::).  But of the other two so far I think I like the buttermilk one better.  Have you ever had really really yummy butter in a restaurant?  That was cultured butter.  I've heard it is good with creme fraiche culture too.  May get some and try that. If anyone has used something they love, would like to hear!
Susan

mtncheesemaker

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 12:29:33 PM »
I started my cultured butter with Aroma B, a mesophilic culture. Now I just save the buttermilk from making the butter, and use it to inoculate the next batch. I also use it for a starter in some cheese.
It is also delicious to drink and great for baking.

linuxboy

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 02:34:34 PM »
I'm very unfamiliar with this "cultured butter".

I think I hear you, though, that the butter-whey left over when using the cream from raw cow's milk to make butter is.....basically useless in the world of cheesemaking?

It's butter made from fermented cream. You basically make a creme fraiche and then churn it to make butter. Common in Europe. If you are using raw milk, it has natural bacteria. It may or may not ferment from that bacteria when you make butter, and the leftover whey (aka "buttermilk") may or may not have the right bacteria or enough of it. Lots of variables there. But it's not useless, it's one way of propagating forward custom homemade starters. If your cream ferments naturally, then you can take that leftover whey that separates when you churn and inoculate the next batch of cream to help it have the same flavor. With raw products, there's so much at play, it's hard to say.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 04:57:36 PM by linuxboy »

linuxboy

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 02:37:38 PM »
But the first part of the instructions say just let you plain buttermilk sit at room temp (no milk added) for several hours because there is not enough bacteria in it straight from the store.  That is where I see the contraindication and where I am confused.

Sorry, read over that too quickly. Yes, you're right, that part is wrong, bacteria will not grow more in store buttermilk. In fact, they will die. But, you should bring it up to room temp.

I use same as Pam for cultured butter - FD or Aroma B or Probat 222 or similar. I like it to have diacetylactis.

Groves

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Re: Biology of Buttermilk/ Buttermilk ripening
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 04:56:13 PM »
Sometimes I picture linuxboy standing in room library full of shelves loaded with small bottles of different cultures. I never cease to be amazed at the intelligence of people here, and he is no exception. Brilliant.