Author Topic: One more vacuum sealing question  (Read 4314 times)

Offline Mondequay

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 10:37:31 AM »
Sailor, what is going on???? You have given me so much wonderful advice and knowledge in a very short amount of time. Every time I read something you've written I become a little smarter. I probably owe you 20 cheeses!
Christine

And, I love this thread, titled "One more vacuum sealing question.' Every time it comes up I have one more question!


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Offline KosherBaker

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 07:30:29 PM »
Moisture in the bag means the cheese needed to dry longer and/or it was underpressed. Because there is residual whey in the cheese this can increase the acidity and leave a sour flavor. When you see this, unbag and let the cheese dry some more.

I try to go natural rind for 3-4 weeks on hard cheeses before bagging. This important time sets the stage for proteolysis and flavor development during aging. For lots of technical reasons (too early in the morning to elaborate) I feel that this makes a significantly better cheese. I air dry for 1-2 days at room temp to get dripping moisture out then I move it to the cave at 54F where the cooler air helps pull more moisture out. After 10-14 days, I rub down with olive oil to prevent cracking. I get virtually no mold growth using this procedure.
Does the size of your cheese wheel matter? If yes do you have some recommended guidelines for smaller/larger wheels.

Not sure who is taking your cheeses away, but you are way overdue for one from me.:)
Rudy

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 08:12:04 PM »
Smaller cheeses are much harder to control. I would follow the same basic procedure, but things tend to happen a little quicker with smaller cheeses. The important thing is for the cheese to expel all excess whey before bagging.

To me one of the biggest problems with small cheeses is loss from rind. If you make a one pound cheese that has a 1/4" rind, that's a HUGE loss compared to the same rind on a 6 pound cheese. To me the loss on a small wheel is unacceptable. Bagging early keeps the rind edible without the proportional loss. As a compromise, going natural rind for 2-4 weeks and then bagging allows the cheese to expel moisture, exchange natural gases, and complete complex processes naturally at the most important time of development.

I miss my cheeses. :(
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
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Offline Susan

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 08:17:52 PM »
OK,  I'm going to have to ask.  I searched the site and can't figure out this cheese thing.  How does one gain or lose cheeses?  I'd give you a cheese!  If I could. 
Susan

Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2010, 08:56:14 PM »
To me one of the biggest problems with small cheeses is loss from rind. If you make a one pound cheese that has a 1/4" rind, that's a HUGE loss compared to the same rind on a 6 pound cheese. To me the loss on a small wheel is unacceptable.

This is one reason I am gearing up to make single 10kg kadova wheels when I make goudas and other cheeses.
I make this size now, just would rather use the Kadova instead of my SS mould.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas


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Offline MrsKK

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 09:10:57 PM »
OK,  I'm going to have to ask.  I searched the site and can't figure out this cheese thing.  How does one gain or lose cheeses?  I'd give you a cheese!  If I could. 
Susan

[Thumbs Up] gives a cheese, while [Thumbs Down] takes away a cheese.  It is a really good method (if used properly) to give feedback to other members when they are being particularly helpful or supportive, or to give negative feedback when someone is being rude and obnoxious. 

As Sailor has always been a gentleman and extremely helpful, I can only guess that someone doesn't know what they are doing.

Offline KosherBaker

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 09:52:09 PM »
I make this size now, just would rather use the Kadova instead of my SS mould.
Why? Is it just the look or is there some other reason(s)?
Rudy

Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 09:59:30 PM »
In comparison, I prefer the rind formed by a kadova.

I currently have many smaller kadova moulds.  (450g and 1kg).

I want to consolidate to a single kadova mould.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 10:21:42 PM »
Wayne - I have settled in to making 8" wheels. I do 35 gallons at a time and get 6 wheels of about 5.25 pounds each. When I do Alpines, I do 5 wheels of 6+ pounds for better eye formation. I want customers to buy entire wheels, so for me, this is entirely a marketing thing. I can sell a 5 pound wheel at $80 a lot easier than I can sell a 20 pound wheel at $320. That's why I decided on my 6 station gang press. The smaller wheels lend themselves better to spontaneous buying and I am promoting them as handmade personal wheels. So far, the restaurants seem to like the idea. For retail, I am going to be packaging an 8" wheel with 8 wedges of different cheeses as a party pack. These will be reassembled into an 8" wheel and vacuum packed onto a bamboo cutting board, ready to open for any event. I already have retailers asking for specific ethnic collections, like English, French, and Italian. I am looking for an Italian blue to round out my offering.

FYI - I am using Tomme molds with Plyban and never have any sticking. After the initial pressing, I remove the Plyban, flip the cheese and press for another 3-4 hours "naked" in the mold. Removes all the wrinkles. The flatter wheels store better than the rounded Gouda style Kadovas.

Another big advantage with the 8" wheels - they can still be easily vac bagged.

Thanks to those who have given me cheeses. It helps to know your appreciated. :)
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 02:41:38 PM »
Wayne I agree with Sailor on the use of the plyban for the first press only. I tried one with no plyban on the first press and it makes like air bubbles around the sides and doesn't form nicely. After the first press with the plyban everything is smooth like a kadova mold. I've been doing this for about 2 years now and it works very well. My theory is that the plyban allows the trap air on the sides to be released giving a smooth finish.

PS the stuff I use is not called plyban but some form of plastic cheese cloth from Glengarry that is much cheaper and worked extremely well.


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Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 03:24:38 PM »
Do you have a link for either?

I have been using muslin from a fabric store, but would be happy to upgrade to something better.
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 03:58:08 PM »
The tome molds and the netting come from Margarett Morris at Glengarry.

Tome Moulds

Cheese bandage netting

Keep in mind she drives to NY to save us on shipping costs so it will take an extra few days to get but they are really cheap less than $30 each.

If you want to try the sheets I can send you some I have like 50 of them the don't seem to wear out. I also use them for draining yogurt or veggies I have shreaded. I have to remember to go get some yellow envelopes anyway. PM me you address again I lost it.

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 06:54:09 PM »
OK.... I lost 2 more cheeses today so I'm just going to be quiet for awhile. :-X
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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2010, 07:07:55 PM »
That doesn't make sense Sailor I just gave you a cheese this afternoon too and I saw the number go up to 46!


I used to get my bags from eBay but Cabelas sells 50 foot rolls for around $15 so I've been getting them there.

Offline Susan

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Re: One more vacuum sealing question
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2010, 07:09:27 PM »
Aw man!  How did that happen to you?  We will all miss you if you are quiet.  I'm getting the cheese thing.  I gave you one. You deserve 100 cheeses!  Tried to give you another  when I saw this last post.  and got scolded.  Evidently I have to wait an hour!  I'm patient.
Susan