Any one make apple cider vinegar?

[coco]

I have this on another forum, but thought since there are so many wine makers here, you might be able to help. I need large amounts of apple cider vinegar and want to see if I can make my own economically. I have to use store bought apples, but this is the season for apples!

After looking around on the web it seems I have a few options, but I'm also confused and have some questions.

One method is to ferment cut up apples in 'filtered' water. This sounds like it would yield more vinegar then pure juice alone. Does this weaken the acidity?

What ph am I looking for? If it's the ph level that keeps it safe from pathogens? I want food grade.

The fermented apples will produce the Mother from what I understand, but if I go with pure juice and inoculate, can I inoculate using a bottle of vinegar that say's 'with the mother" or does it have to be the 'mother jelly'?

[linuxboy]

One method is to ferment cut up apples in 'filtered' water. This sounds like it would yield more vinegar then pure juice alone. Does this weaken the acidity?

The original sugar, as available to the yeast to make alcohol and then acetobacter to make acetic acid, determines acidity. Cut up apples do not have all the sugars available. The most availability is obtained by pureeing or juicing. Why do you think this would yield more vinegar?

What ph am I looking for? If it's the ph level that keeps it safe from pathogens? I want food grade.

Yes, it's the pH. You're looking for it to go below 3. This is about 5% acetic acid, about same as commercial grade.

The fermented apples will produce the Mother from what I understand

Only if acetobacter is present in the apples, in the air, or otherwise in the environment. The apples don't somehow produce bacteria.

but if I go with pure juice and inoculate, can I inoculate using a bottle of vinegar that say's 'with the mother" or does it have to be the 'mother jelly'?

Doesn't matter, so long as there's acetobacter in there to convert alcohol to acetic acid.

[coco]

 

Why do you think this would yield more vinegar?

I was going to press the apples afterwards and add the juice to the water for more volume. But it doesn't sound like thats going to work as well without the natural sugars.

Thanks, I'll stick with the apples only.
I guess I'll run them through the food processor (don't have a juicer) and press. Any rough estimates on how many pounds of apples it takes for a gallon of cider.

[linuxboy]

It would work fine to add store juice to fresh pressed juice. You can even add table sugar. It's the sugar that makes alcohol that makes vinegar. Just don't get the specific gravity too high or the yeast won't ferment it cleanly, and you don't even need to go beyond an SG of ~1.06 or so to get good vinegar.

It takes about 15 lbs of apples for a gallon of juice.

[coco]

Yikes, you lost me at specific gravity, and SG of ~1.06, sounds like something I'd need a refractometer  for, which I don't have.

If I use 5 gallon bucket, is there a recipe that would err on the side of caution, like 4 gallons juice, 1 gallon water, 1/2 cup sugar?

[linuxboy]

Sugar in apples varies significantly so hard to say. But just straight juice should be fine in most cases. You can get a wine hydrometer to measure SG. They're $10 at homebrew shops.

[coco]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the process. Getting rid of a glut of milk today, but tomorrow will be all about apple juicing and maybe a pie for kicks.

thanks again.

[Tomer1]

The process is basically simple
1.Ferment wine
2.Keep it in a container leaving some head space

The thing is that acetobacter strugles against other oxygen loving bacteria which are of the spoilage family and will just spoile the wine ,not turn it into vinegar.
Thats why I would suggest you get yourself a vinegar culture with a live vinegar mother, this will increase your chance of successful vinegar production X10.

My successful attemp was with a homemade white wine which was accually suprising since it was stabilizes with So2 and pottasium sorbate (to prevent refermentation after sweetening).
It was originally 3.1 PH and 12% ,
I diluted it to 7% , not sure about the PH - I used filtered tap water so I assume it went to about 3.5-3.6.

I left it open untill it showed signs of oxidation (smell and browning) to ensure no perservatives are left, moved it to a 1 gallon vat with 50% headspace.
Covered it with a paper towel and gave it a good shake every few days to introduce oxygen.
At first it showed a very powerful nail polish smell which later was replaced by vinegar smell.

I had 4 failed attempets before I successfully cultured a mother out of my wine.
And it takes patience, about 2-3 months before you know if the surface film is just mold or a mother is forming. (it looks like a slimy jellyfish).

Now I just feed it once its done "eating" add wine,doubling its volume each time.
I took some of the mother out to start a red wine vinegar with some failed 2008 red muscat which I later found out is not a good variety for dry red wine style,better for light rose or fortified desert wine.

[hammerhead]

Yikes, you lost me at specific gravity, and SG of ~1.06, sounds like something I'd need a refractometer  for, which I don't have.

If I use 5 gallon bucket, is there a recipe that would err on the side of caution, like 4 gallons juice, 1 gallon water, 1/2 cup sugar?

You can get a hydrometer from any homebrew shop for about $8 to $10. No refractometer necessary. FYI, don't confuse 1.06 with 1.006.

[Tomer1]

A hydrometer is the most basic measurment tool of the winemaker other then his nose and pallete,
You could do without if you dont intend on making wine,
Fermenting 100% apple juice using ripe apples will give you at least 5-6% of alcohol which is enough for good stable vinegar.

Do keep good sanitation to prevent pre fermentation spoilage which is very important when doing wild ferementation (not using cultured yeast).
You may want to keep it safe and use bakers yeast if you dont want to spend a few $ on wine\beer yeast.

[Corina]

Concerning apple cider vinegar, I make every fall as we have a lot of apples. I start by pressing the juice, then adding the guice in a barrel, and let it to ferment for a week in a warm place. As the juice is filled with puree, this puree starts separating and the vinegar becoming clean.However, in this week I mix it every day.After that, I let it separate from the pulp and, when it is clear and it has formed a thick pulp covering, like a skin, I put it into bottles.It has great aroma.