Provolone & Mozarella Curd Formation Problems

[Heidelberg]

Hello my name is Heidelberg and I am new to cheese making!
Thank you for this great forum

I am attempting my first cheese (other than the simple Ricotta last night), Provolone (recipe is from this site), and am having some issues with curd formation. After mixing in the rennet and adjusting the temperature slightly, the curd begins to form. Checking the curd about 30-40min later as per the directions and the curd looks like lots of tiny separate grains and won't stick together to form the large curd for cutting into cubes. The little curds also sank to the bottom of the pan and did not stay at the top in a large curd formation as I have seen in pictures.
Temp was about 30C initially, but no curd formation at this temp, so I raised it slightly to 38C and curds began to form.
I have given it lots of time, seeing if maybe more time will help, but no luck yet. Might just strain it and turn it into a mystery cheese.

Does any one know what could have caused this?

Thanks for your help!

[Alex]

Welcome to the forum!

Its difficult to answer, what type of milk did you use, as well as culture and rennett?

[Heidelberg]

Hi Alex, thanks for the reply!

I used 3L of ultra pasteurized full cream milk (long life milk). I used a thermophilic culture (Type C) which ripened for about an hour and a half before coagulation. I added calcium chloride at the start when the temperature was close to 30C, and then Lipase diluted in sterile water, and finally the starter culture to ripen. After ripening I used a liquid rennet diluted in sterile water. After not seeing any coagulation begin I raised the temperature a bit to 38C and things started to coagulate into the tiny little curd balls, but the little wisps of curd did not end up sticking together it all just remained a vat of tiny little individual curds about the size of rice. I left it for quite a while (several hours in total) to see if it would eventually come together, but the consistency didn't change. The whey was not completely clear either, as I have seen before when making curds with vinegar for casein paint.

Any ideas? Maybe I should try milk that has not been ultra pasteurized and get the slightly fresher stuff from the cold section.

Thanks!    

[cdonaghe]

I would guess that the problem is from the ultra pasteurized milk. The high heat for the ultra pasteurized milk kills all the bacteria that help make the curds.

Just my thoughts,
Charles

[Alex]

The types of cheeses that can be made from UHT milk, is limited. That should be the problem. Is it homogenized as well?

[Heidelberg]

Yea, the milk was homogenized as well. Going to get some fresh milk today, hopefully there will be some non-UHT milk available. Thanks for your help!

[FRANCOIS]

UHT milk = bad for cheesemaking.  Also if you are using thermo, 30C isn't going to cut the mustard for ripening.  You need to look up the temp reuqired for your strains, but it's probably over 40C.

[Heidelberg]

I have the started the next batch, and it's looking good so far. Thanks for the tip on the ripening temps Francois, I am keeping this batch at around 40-42C and it is coagulating well - no curd issues yet. Just waiting for the clean break. Not long now... How exciting

[wh1sp3r]

Hello same problem here

i kept temperature at 32 degrees and after an hour, it made a small white balls which sank to the bottom of the double sided pan. I am using termo cultures too and of course, i was using your recipe here. On the label on termal cultures bag is written, then temperature should not decrease below 38degrees. But repice is a recipe ... yes, i failed.

So, I am curious about Heidelber's try .. and i will try to stir it at 40-42degrees too

[Heidelberg]

Hi wh1sp3r,

Curd formation was a lot better with fresh non-ultra pasturised milk and maintaining 40-42C temps, but sometime not long after cutting the curds they started to become a bit crumbly again. I think this time is was because they were too acidic. I found this post (http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,3448.msg26958.html#msg26958) where nscheeseguy had a similar issue that was determined to be too much starter resulting in a too acidic curd that crumbled and didn't stick together. I think I will have to get pH strips if I want to have a better idea of what is going on. I think I will use less starter next time and see what happens.

It's all good learning though!

[wh1sp3r]

Hello Heidelberg,

Too much starter ? It's possible, i just added a starter by eye. Let's buy a ph strips then !
i think, i will try it again today.

[Heidelberg]

I added starter by eye too

I found some pH strips on ebay for under $10, which is quite a bit cheaper than the pH strips on the cheese making websites which are about $70 for the same amount.

Looking forward to trying it again too!

Hope yours works out!

[MrsKK]

Rather than go to the expense of buying ph strips, try using measurements with your starter cultures.  Accuracy is truly important here.  I've never used any measurement of ph, yet have lovely cheeses all the time, but I measure my ingredients.

[wh1sp3r]

MrsKK: yes, you're right, but problem is, i can't find, how much grams i should use for X litres of milk, so i have no idea, how much cultures should i add. Do you have any information about this ?

I have ST-M5 thermo lactic cultures.. It's dryed and freezed.

Thank you for your answer.

[wh1sp3r]

Ok, my second try .. after hour from injecting a rennet .. it looks good .. but when i try it with finger, if it's a clean cut, crack (sorry, i am not english speaking person) it's not. i still see a little milk on my finder .. it's like yogurt at the moment ... so i have to wait another hour, right ?