Author Topic: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay  (Read 88207 times)

Stinky

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #165 on: February 28, 2015, 09:44:15 PM »
MA 4001 is a blend of mesophilic lactic acid cultures plus a thermophilic Streptococcus thermophilus. Because it is a meso/thermo blend, it is not a great candidate for a Mother Culture. If you incubate at a meso temperature, the thermo will be suppressed. If you incubate at thermo temperatures, you will kill the mesos. In our shop we make 2 separate MCs - 1 meso and 1 thermo - and blend them together.

Ah, I see. Well, these are probably the cultures I use most in order...

4001
Thermo C
Thermo B
Meso II

I have a few others, but I'm sort of trying to reduce it to that. So at that point should I mix a meso and thermo together, if so, which one?

I also have a bit of Aroma and Ma100 on hand, as well as a tiny bit of Meso III

munteaniur

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #166 on: June 30, 2015, 01:46:20 PM »
WOW! That is one useful thread!
I've a quick question.
Adding culture. Just 1/32 teaspoon is plenty. The more you add, the faster it will be ready. Why hurry? I use small doses and just wait 16-24 hours.
In the instructions provided by the seller (I bought something similar to Flora Danica) I read that you need to add the entire sachet to 1l of milk and wait for 16-24h. Is that so or he's trying to make me buy another sachet?  :D

Thanks, you are my heroes!

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #167 on: June 30, 2015, 03:16:44 PM »
I do also think that these ideas are just about perfect.  My problem is that lately I have been dealing with late blooming issues that seem to be correlated to only cheeses made with this process and after discussing with culture manufacturers, unless we use a complete sterile environment to inoculate the mother culture, you are creating a potential problem. 

A home made "Laminar" flow system might resolve these issues and I may just do that in the future.  For now I switched to DS and just in case I am using HOLDBAC-LC as well.

I really need to find a way to do these cultures again because the benefits are clear.

Thanks

jmason

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #168 on: June 30, 2015, 03:41:46 PM »
I really don't know that a laminar flow hood is required.  When I was in college we had one and I used it but most sterile transfers were done on a lab bench with no hood at all.  A simple hood makes things even easier.  But that being said there is no substitute for proper technique.  You can contaminate with a flow hood or without if your technique is lacking.  If you are really nervous spraying the air and surfaces with a Tbsp of bleach in a liter/quart of water will knock down most airbornes, wipe your hands and arms down down with 70% isopropyl and dip all utensils in boiling water (which you should be doing anyway).  The techniques are much like canning and there are plenty of videos out there about that.  Close windows 30 minutes prior and turn off all fans/ac/ventilation in the area to allow the air to settle.  Yoev had a method that precultured the dvi prior the the cheesemaking that seems a great alternative and with all the dvi cultures on the market there are plenty of options.

John

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #169 on: June 30, 2015, 04:46:54 PM »
I don't think any of my issues are related to lack of cleaning.  I am a chemist and understand and practice sterilization to the nth degree.  I think that in an environment that is not dedicated to cheese making/fermentation, having pets it is virtually impossible to stop air borne contaminants.

I disinfect the entire kitchen with germicides used in the restaurant industry where contact time is less than 30 seconds.  The only thing I can't control is air and spraying the air with bleach does not really provide controlled for airborne particals.  Ozone would be a better answer perhaps.

According to Danisco, many cheese makers and fermenters use the techniques mentioned here and it is widely accepted.  That said, they also stated that these cheese makers often use a different room to prepare the culture or use laminar flow hoods or things of the like.

The challenge here is that the mother culture creates a perfect environment for anything to grow, including the type of bacteria that causes late blooming that is most often not even killed in pasteurization.  Perhaps ultra pasteurization would do it, I just don't know.

Maybe the making of mother culture and combination of HOLDBAC is the answer.  I am not ready to give up at all.  Just need to make sure the only thing I grow is the bacteria I want and nothing else.

jmason

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #170 on: July 01, 2015, 01:09:31 PM »
Misting the air is not about killing airbornes as much as it is about knocking them out of the air.  And yes pet dander is a big issue.  But I disagree that a laminar flow hood is gonna solve your issues automatically.  They are a great tool, I own one, don't use it in cheese making and it currently resides in my storage unit.  But hey if you want to spend 350 plus and have that big thing hanging around, cool.  A commercial cheese making facility perhaps should have one most artisan cheese makers do not, commercial or otherwise.  I guess my point is that throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily make it go away.  When I was in micro class there were some people that could make sterile transfers and some that couldn't, it was my second time sitting through a micro class, and truthfully I was amazed that anyone could do sterile work in that lab, it was messy and open to students all day with little or no monitoring.  The first time was a micro class for medical lab techs, taught by medical lab techs, and second day we were working with pathogens.  That first class gave me my technique, the second expanded my knowledge but technique was never emphasized as a priority, oh the perils of a liberal arts education.  Sorry if I sounded preachy, not my intent, just don't know that this is the route to solve your problem.  Good luck.  Sailor, sorry for hijacking your thread.

John

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #171 on: July 01, 2015, 02:29:10 PM »
I think I may have confused you in my answers.  I am not going to spend 350 in a laminar flow.  I may think of a way to make one to assist me but that is not likely.  That said, until I move cheese making to a room I can control better and ozone (I do have an ozone machine) I am going with no starter culture for now.

Wait..... I could use the ozone machine right now when I am inoculating starter culture.  That is actually the answer for me since I am already handling all types of complete sterilization.  I just need to handle the air contaminants.....hum....Need to think about this but may switch back to starter culture if I feel that I can create sterile air and I think I can with the ozone :)

Thank you :)

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #172 on: July 01, 2015, 04:11:08 PM »
The MC is not your problem. When you make a MC you inoculate with thousands of good bacteria that out-compete any bad bacteria. Since Clostridium (which causes late blowing) is a spore former, it would not wake up and suddenly burst into action during the short time needed to incubate the MC and any lingering spores would be at a really low (sub-clinical) level. Environmental contamination during the actual make is much more likely since you have a longer exposure time to open air. ie- when making a MC you open the lid, add the starter culture, and quickly close the lid for the duration of incubation. VERY little environmental exposure time. Whereas, during a make, the milk is constantly exposed to open air.

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #173 on: July 01, 2015, 04:17:28 PM »
I would agree to that.  The Holdbac-lc should assist.

I am moving to a new house and there I have a room dedicated to cheese making.  Maybe there the issue will be less, not to mention that I will be in another state.  The issue for me, 100%, is not sterilization but rather air contaminants.  Most likely because of the AC vent in the kitchen blowing right to the cheese (as discussed in another thread).

Thanks Sailor.  I am going to make starter culture in an ozoned room and at least take that variable out of the equation.

Thanks

jmason

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #174 on: July 13, 2015, 12:46:23 AM »
I'm going to assume that since you said you are a chemist that you know that ozone is a potent oxidizer and will oxidize your lungs as easily as it will "cook" microbes.  Be safe.

John

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #175 on: July 13, 2015, 02:39:17 PM »
Thanks John. 

Indeed.  I am aware of the effects of Ozone and do take precautions.  One of the benefits of Ozone is that it is a very unstable molecule which breaks down into Oxygen .  As a rule, its half life is 30 minutes and you need more than 0.10ppm to be out of compliance with OSHA for an 8 hour exposure.  When ozone is generated, it immediately begins the attempt to revert back to oxygen.  I can revert back by Oxidation (reacting with organic materials such as odors or reacting with bacteria.  It's half life continues at a fast rate and because rooms are not sterile or dust free, or for that matter free of things that can oxidize, it is considered safe to enter a room after 30 minutes of ozone treatment.

Thanks

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #176 on: August 13, 2015, 02:31:52 PM »
UHT milk still has thermophilic spoilage bacteria, so do NOT assume that you can use UHT to avoid the sterilization phase. Use very little starter to inoculate the sterilized, and cooled milk. The more you add, the faster the MC will be ready. That concept is also true when using the MC during a make. If you want acid production to proceed more quickly, use more MC in the beginning. The balance of acid production, the final pH, and the flavors of the finished cheese is a part of the artistry of the cheesemaker.

kosztmark

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #177 on: August 30, 2015, 07:43:47 AM »
Hello Everybody!

I have spent a few month on reading this forum. A lot of information :).
After I have read this thread I started making cheese with mother culture. I managed to make MC from almost all types of culture but LM-57. I have tried to make it several times  with different temperature condition and quantities but without any success. for example: the quatity 1 litre of milk (it is always the same) 29C, with 1/64 tsp DVI; 29C with 2% B.E. DVI (it was more than 1/64 tsp); 37,5C with 2% B.E. The temperature was hold during the ripening. nothing happened after 20 hours. I have not measured the pH of any trial but the milk remained liquid.
Could you help me how to make LM-57 mother culture?

thank you very much in advance.
Mark



kosztmark

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #178 on: September 26, 2015, 05:50:36 AM »
I would like to to make a batch of cheddar with RA21. I have read somewhere in the blog that Sailor makes or made cheddars with the RA series as far as I remember a primer culture of it was used.
Sailor, could you help me on what temperature you inoculate this type of culture?
Making a mother culture of a mixed strain culture depends on the cheese inoculating temperature?
Reading the thread it was not suggested to make MC of mixed strain cultures. I am a bit confused but would be very happy if there is a solution.

Thanks,

Mark

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay
« Reply #179 on: September 27, 2015, 05:56:23 PM »
RA21 is a mesophillic culture. Just follow the instructions in the beginning of this thread.