Making Mother Cultures - A Photo Essay

[pranot1]

Yes, I'm sure you can.  I've held a yogurt culture for years and years using skim milk powder with no obvious movement from the original culture.

Thankyou very much mike.. But how much  ratio betwen water and powder?

[mikekchar]

Just use the normal amount that you would use for making milk.  You can add an extra 10% if you want to make it thicker, but there is no need for making a culture.

[pranot1]

Just use the normal amount that you would use for making milk.  You can add an extra 10% if you want to make it thicker, but there is no need for making a culture.

its work 

[mikekchar]

Another in my thread necromancy project  This is great information and I must have seen it last year since I posted on it :-)  Sailor con queso's posts are legendary and this one is no exception.  It's really interesting to me that even as a commercial cheese producer he *prefers* making a mother culture from DVIs and then using the mother culture (which he abbreviates as MC).  Also interesting the Linuxboy agrees with him that it's likely to produce better cheese.  I imagine that influenced my decision to do it, but I have no memory :-)  I definitely find that especially as I can't reliably measure the tiny amount of DVI culture I need for my cheeses, mother cultures have dramatically improved the reliability of my makes.

[redboxrind]

Hi everyone, I've read the thread a few times and am right now making two mother cultures. One is by adding 1/32tsp of Thermophilic MOT92 DVI to  2litres of low fat milk at 110 F (43celcius) for approx 6hrs or until a ph of 4-4.2 is reached. The other is a Aromatic Mesophilic also adding 1/32tsp of DVI to 2litres of low fat milk but at what temp? From this this thread I concluded that I can inoculate The Mesophilic at either 90 F (32.2 Celsius) or 70-72 F (22.2 Celsius) then leaving it at a room temp until a ph of 4.2-4.5 is reached.

So my question is which is it, Inoculate the Mesophilic at 90F or 71 F ? or am I over worrying this point? Any help is appreciated!

Many thanks go out to this forums members for all the invaluable info provided, its fantastic!

[Bantams]

When I make fromage blanc with Meso Aroma B, the milk starts at 93° at culturing and then drifts down to about 75-80° by the time I scoop curd.  I think I would try 85-90°.
Better to incubate at the temp at which you will be making the corresponding cheese so the culture can adapt a little better.

[redboxrind]

Thanks Bantams, thanks for that I added the culture at 88F (31.7C) was thinking same. Have now put the inoculated 2ltr milk container into a large empty pot stuffed with towels and lid to let it slowly come down to room temp. Cheers

[redboxrind]

Hi again everyone, an update on the above. After 6hrs at steady temp of 110F (43c) and a ph of 4.8 the incubating Thermophilic MOT92 mother culture split and separated to a 60% whey and 40% curd mass concoction. I haven’t reached the target ph of 4.0 to 4.2 which I should reach in an hour or so, should I continue in trying to meet the target ph? Is the split mother culture usable? Was the separation caused by keeping the temp at 110F (43c) for the entire duration? I don’t mind restarting tomorrow it’s all a learning curve. I thought it looked the right consistency at the 5hr mark but the ph was 5.4, any ideas?

On the other hand the Aromatic Mesophilic worked a treat, was ready in around 12 hours. The dvi used was from 2016 so was happily surprised, I won't be throwing out any so called out of date cultures anytime soon, the mother culture from it smelled and tasted quite wonderful, another nice surprise. The Thermophilic was the one that was only 1yr old so was equally surprised by both outcomes.

[mikekchar]

One thing to consider is the final pH that you want.  The higher the temp, the higher pH that milk will coagulate at.  This means that you can get the milk to gel pretty close to a pH of 5.0 if you hold it at 38 C.  I've noticed that with a couple of aromatic mesophilic cultures, higher pH seems to help LLD and LMC (gas/diacetyl production bacteria).  You can then put it quickly in the fridge and as long as you reculture it quickly, it won't drop too far.  It's surprising how much you can affect the final mother culture.  These days I've been going at 25 C, which seems to give me a good balance.  For thermophilic, I've been going at 45 C. Originally I started at 40 C, but I've noticed I like the results better at a slightly higher temp.  Again, keeping an eye on it and sticking it in the fridge right when it gels will keep the pH higher.  You can also use a pH meter (which I lack) ;-)

[redboxrind]

Thank you @mikekchar, I was thinking I'd take the Thermophilic MOT92 to 110F (43C) hold it for an hour and then let it drop to room temp and take whichever comes first, the gel point or the Ph marker, as I have no idea why it separated so early before hitting the Ph marker of 4.0 to 4.2

[mikekchar]

I suspect your pH meter might be off a tad.  5.4 is a *bit* higher than I'd expect at 43 C, but it's not crazy.  It's more what I'd expect in the high 40's.  I can't imaging you will ever hit 4.0 to 4.2.  Normally the bacteria stops growing at about 4.6.

[redboxrind]

Thanks @mikekchar, second attempt at the Thermophilic 092 mother culture was the same as the first, it started changing its consistency at the 5hr and 5.4 ph mark, at which point I pulled it from the 43c water bath to cool. I also made more Mesophilic and Flora Danica mother cultures, it seemed to me that the Thermophilic (although a thicker consistency) was again no way near the same thickness or consistency (lumpier and thinner) of the Mesophilic or Flora Danica mother cultures which were smoother and thicker, is that normal?

In making the mother cultures for me a big chunk of time was needed just to sterilize the bottles using the water method. It made me wonder why I couldn't chemically sterilize given the bottles are sealed under the bottle caps, and if the way they seal/bottle the milk here was the same in other countries? ie double sealed like in the pictures

[mikekchar]

it started changing its consistency at the 5hr and 5.4 ph mark, at which point I pulled it from the 43c water bath to cool.

Interesting.  That still seems very slightly high to me, but it's consistent with your other measurement, so either I'm wrong or your meter is consistently a bit high :-)  I would expect that to happen a bit closer to 5.0.  I don't have any good references, though, so I could easily be wrong.

it seemed to me that the Thermophilic (although a thicker consistency) was again no way near the same thickness or consistency (lumpier and thinner) of the Mesophilic or Flora Danica mother cultures which were smoother and thicker, is that normal?

Yes, it is very normal for different cultures to have different consistency.  For one thing, the faster the milk hits the acidity point where it gels, the faster the proteins push the water out and the larger the curds.  So it makes total sense that you will get lumpier and thinner if you are acidifying more quickly (which is normal for thermophilic cultures).  Also different cultures will produce different amounts of polysaccharides  (basically large carbohydrate chains).  More polysaccharides will produce a smoother yogurt.  It can get to the point where it is essentially slimy.


In making the mother cultures for me a big chunk of time was needed just to sterilize the bottles using the water method. It made me wonder why I couldn't chemically sterilize given the bottles are sealed under the bottle caps, and if the way they seal/bottle the milk here was the same in other countries?
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[FishFarmAndy]

Great thread, and good to see this decade-old information still available!

In UK I've used 'Homestead supplies' mesophilic culture in the past, and they deliver it with a recipe for mother culture. I made most of my 50 cheese batches like that, from frozen MC. I recently switched to using kefir and had good results, that's another subject on which I'll consult the forum search function...

[Fates End]

Tried this procedure w/ a gallon of skim milk and an eyeballed eighth teaspoon (can't find my actual 1/8 tsp) of NECS meso starter, under my oven light for a temp of around 90-95 overnight.


When I woke up, there hadn't been any noticeable curdling and the pH was around 5. I figured that since meso is slow, it would take a bit for it to cross that last hurdle, so I waited a couple hours and checked again.


Big mistake. When I opened up the pot it was like I'd added rennet; a big cylinder of curd separated from the sides by a thin layer of whey. I quickly stirred it up, spooned what I could fit into my ice tray, and sealed the rest back up in the fridge to stop the progression, but how screwed am I here? I tried checking the pH, but my wide spectrum strips turned out to have gone bad and my good strips only go down to 4.5, which the culture had evidently gotten lower than.


I really don't want to throw out a gallon of mother, so if it's not totally screwed, how should I make up for the botch? Using double the usual amount?