Cheese cave temperature question

[moodock]

Hi all,

I have a mini refrigerator that I would like to use as a cheese cave. It is a sealed system-- there is no air recirculation, no fan, etc. The metal freezer box is what cools the entire unit. Humidity control has not been an issue. My question is on temperature. At the warmest possible setting, the bottom of the fridge is 48.5 and the top is 50.5. I plan to install a small fan from a computer to circulate the air inside to try and even out the temperature. I was wondering if this is too low to age the cheese properly, or is this an acceptable temperature.

[linuxboy]

Fine for most cheeses.

[moodock]

Thanks. I figured with the fan the temp would be just under 50F, but wanted to make sure one degree would not be problematic for most cheeses. This is just to tide me over until I construct my full cave & wine cellar in the spring.

[ArnaudForestier]

Fine for most cheeses.

Tagging along, as I am finding my newly acquired standard reefer with recirc fan cycles between 50-55 at lowest setting.  I've got a nano, portable US humidifier cycling on and off at highest setting every quarter hour, and as soon as I can scrounge up a hygrometer, I'll be looking to dial in my humidity as best as possible.  Once loaded, per Francois' comments and yours, I believe, Linux, I understand the humidity and thermal load issues will be much more manageable.

That said, presuming a fridge only now beginning, would this temp range be alright for tommes, reblochon, possibly beaufort and camembert, acknowledging that each cheese has an ideal, and each differs from the other?  Is there some information somewhere, a sort of style-sheet for temp and humidity levels, across many different cheeses?  (I also ask this in a somewhat directed way - building an ideal environment for tomme ambient flora health, per earlier discussions - which I realize is a different question).

[FRANCOIS]

In that sort of situation you will find that some cheeses will do better than others in different parts of the cave.  It will be a trial and error experiment to figure this out.  I used to have a similar setup and over time the cooler got to an equilibrium that was sort of in between the best ranges for everything in it, a trade off of sorts. It works, but it's loads of extra work to get really good cheese out as you need to watch every single wheel twice a day to make sure it doesn't need service.

[linuxboy]

Paul, Francois is absolutely right, you'll get variations in the reefer. If you want to equalize it, what you can do is put a sock in on top and pipe the cold air in through the sock to avoid the temp differentials. Fans and moving air and convection work to some degree, but not all that great.

[ArnaudForestier]

Paul, Francois is absolutely right, you'll get variations in the reefer. If you want to equalize it, what you can do is put a sock in on top and pipe the cold air in through the sock to avoid the temp differentials. Fans and moving air and convection work to some degree, but not all that great.

Sorry for a dumb question - but you mean, a sock, as in a cotton thing, or something like what I've seen for humidity piping?  

[linuxboy]

Yep, the stuff they use in cleanrooms or cheesecaves. The fabric that has a very even dispersion pattern, and the fabric is made out of special plastic.

You can also create a crude version yourself out of regular pvc by drilling holes in it or using drain pipe, but it's tough to manufacture the special sock fabric.

Have you read http://www.silverymooncheese.com/docs/FinalCheeseCaveReport.pdf

[ArnaudForestier]

Yep, the stuff they use in cleanrooms or cheesecaves. The fabric that has a very even dispersion pattern, and the fabric is made out of special plastic.

You can also create a crude version yourself out of regular pvc by drilling holes in it or using drain pipe, but it's tough to manufacture the special sock fabric.

Have you read http://www.silverymooncheese.com/docs/FinalCheeseCaveReport.pdf

Thanks, Linux, I'll look into it and, uh, forego the gym tube socks. 

Yep, I have read the Silvery Moon report, or at least glanced through it - hadn't focused on it yet, as I seem to recall they excluded the upright reefer option from study.  I think this is where I at least got the recall of a humidity sock, an image in the report, somewhere?

Edit:  Thanks, Linux, pulled it back up, and see the sock discussion.  Very much appreciated - you've really been a big help.

@Francois, thank you as well.  As much as I love a wide variety of cheeses, my bent is to perfect one thing as well as I can, then move on, having learned by the approach.  I think I was hoping for some magic temp/humidity setpoint that was optimal for several cheeses.  And I knew that was impossible.  So for the time being, I think, tommes it will be. 

[linuxboy]

You want to design the reefer with me? One of my projects this year is to build out a very cheap, portable, aging cave that someone can build to get started with cheesemaking, and a reefer seems like a good option. We could document it, open source the whole thing to make it easier for newbies.

[ArnaudForestier]

You want to design the reefer with me? One of my projects this year is to build out a very cheap, portable, aging cave that someone can build to get started with cheesemaking, and a reefer seems like a good option. We could document it, open source the whole thing to make it easier for newbies.

I think I'd be a pretty cumbersome partner, but sounds fun, and anything I can do to help others along, you bet.  You, uh, do realize I asked if the sock we were discussing was a tube thing, from JC Penney's, right?

BTW, printed off the report in its entirety, and settling into it tonight.  Thanks for the heads up.

[ArnaudForestier]

FYI, it was the pdf "Specialty Cheese Making and Aging in Switzerland" where I had seen the couple of photos of a "humidity sock." (Page 9).  Not sure if you've seen it, Linux, though I suspect this pdf old news to you. 

From the Silvery Moon report, saw a mention of my earlier question re: optimal temp/humidity levels for various cheeses; was directed to U. of Guelph's site, as well as Mark Druart's workshop on Affinage.  These are all new to me, though again I'd suspect you've all long known of them.  The Guelph site is a great resource, as is our own Babcock Hall in Madison. 

[linuxboy]

A lot of people use these

http://www.fabricair.com/net/Product/products.asp

You want engineered materials when dealing with a challenging environment like a cave, they tend to perform better.

Yes, I know Marc, he's a pleasant Frenchie

I love the Wisconsin CDR, has some great folks who work there.

Did you need some temp and humidity targets? Which cheeses? And with which molds on the rind?

[FRANCOIS]

The best are called ductsox.  You can get anti-microbial coated versions for medical applications, which I would recommend.  What tends to happen with socks in this applicaiton, if they are attached to a high velocity fan, is the low dew point air off the coil will trigger a humidity signal, which will activate the humidifier.  The moist air will then get sucked through the coil and condense, sending most of the water through the drain pan but some will get by, collecting on the sox surface.  Once that happens it's mold city.  While they are removable and cleanable, best to get the coated version to start.

Linux, I would suggest a custom coil and fan box if possible.  You can slow the speed of the air right down, increase total volume and keep the flow laminar around the cave.  This simulates a natural cave much more closely.  If you do this with a normal cooler you'll freeze the coil in this application, which is not good.

[linuxboy]

Thx; good points. I've been looking at a few different manufacturers. I agree about the anti-microbials. The anti-microbial are a must also because once you get a growth, they leave a biofilm, which serves as a substrate for future molds to take hold. PITA to get all that stuff off, it sticks like glue.