Author Topic: Manufactured Direct Vat Set Starter Cultures - Amounts?  (Read 4408 times)

Offline Cartierusm

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Manufactured Direct Vat Set Starter Cultures - Amounts?
« on: December 26, 2008, 01:33:10 PM »
So I talked to Egon at Danlac today and got the skinny on some of the culture info I've been wondering about.

As far as adding more culture if using store bought, not necessary when using Calcium Chloride.

As far as ripening he says about 1 hour maybe 1 hour 15 minutes, it does take a while, he said, for the Direct Set cultures to activate. But most modern recieps take that into account. He said it's time to add the rennet when the PH starts to move. I told him about my starting PH of 6.8 and after ripening it's 6.7, he said that's perfect. He said it shouldn't move much.

As far as doses, on the Dansico pack it lists the DCU, he told me take the DCU (125 doses for MA11) times that by 10 (liters) and then divide by 3.75 (liters in a gallon) and you get the gallonage for that pack. The only problem is I didn't ask how many grams are in each pack and they are not listed on the website or the pack. Later today I'm going to get a very accurate scale and weigh the content and figure it out.

If I remember anything else from the conversation I'll let you know.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2008, 05:42:55 PM »
Thanks Cartier, my problem has being weighing tiny quantities (especially as I only make 1-3 US gallon batches) that my digital scale won't go down to as smallest unit is 1 gram.

In this thread Tea recommended a mini digital scale she had found.

Also, on the website I posted pictures of some of the cultures I've bought, if you hover over the picture the popup text tells you how many 10 litre doses in each package. I bought them from US based Dairy Connection, who gives the package sizes on their website.

Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 05:45:32 PM »
Hmm,

I am not that exact.  Perhaps i need to be.


I use 1/8th tsp per gallon.  I get out my 1/8th tsp measuring spoon and scoop out what i need.

Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 08:01:49 PM »
Cheesehead, I'm also going to purchase a .1 gram scale...hmmm where to buy one in San Francisco at this late hour...the only place I know that's open is the pot (marijana, for all you squares) store...why on earth would potheads need to weigh things, I mean in that state they can barely function...I guess I should have clarified at the beginning of this post "WARNING SARCASM AHEAD".

P.S. Cheesehead I know the doeses but I don't know how much material is on the inside, how many grams. You can't divide what you don't know, that's the reason for the scale. I'm going to weigh all of mine and come up with a standard.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2008, 08:07:18 PM by Cartierusm »
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Offline chilipepper

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 08:41:02 PM »
If you are looking for a source for scales and if you have a sporting goods store handy.... I'm using my reloading scale for measuring out small quantities.  When you are measuring powder to put in reloaded ammo you are measuring down to the 10th of a grain (1 grain = 0.06479891 gram = 0.0022857142857 ounce).  Should work out well for the weights you are interested in and if you get a digital one, most will allow you to choose ounces or grams as well.  Mine is a Cabelas brand one and works well.  Good luck.


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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 11:48:46 PM »
I just checked my scale and it goes down to 1 gram, which should be good enough.

Chili, when I reload I just round it off to the nearest pound...makes me wonder why most ranges don't allow you to use ammo you bring in...hot loads...we don't need no stinkin' hot loads. For those who don't know gun lingo hot load is not a dirty thing.
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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 01:42:25 AM »
So a scale that can measure .1 gram is necessary, but I got around that with my scale and just weighed the entire contents, but I also teaspooned out the contents and that's all I need to figure out the correct proportions.

Choozit TA61 LYO 50 DCU: 50 x 10 = 500 liters / 3.75 = 134 gallons of milk
In this pack there is .25 oz of culture, which I measured as 30 - 1/8 tsp. which is 3.75 teaspoons. So .028 of a teaspoon should ripen 1 gallon of milk. For 5 gallons it's .14 just over a teaspoon. For 2 gallon batches .056 a little less than 1/16 tsp., which they do sell. A little extra won't hurt, just don't over do it.

Choozit LH100 LYO 20 DCU: 20 x 10 = 200 liters / 3.75 = 54 gallons of milk
In this pack there is .20 oz of culture, which I measured as 20 - 1/8 tsp. which is 2.5 teaspoons. So .045 of a teaspoon should ripen 1 gallon of milk. For 5 gallons 1/4 tsp. For 2 gallons 3/32 of a teaspoon, just use a little more than 1/16 teaspoon.

If you haven't noticed yet I've rounded the number, it doesn't need to be that exact.

Choozit MA11 LYO 125 DCU: 125 x 10 = 1250 liters / 3.75 = 334 gallons of milk
This pack weighed 1.62 oz. and had 160 - 1/8 tsp. in it. Which comes out to 20 teaspoons, which means .06 of a teaspoon per gallon of milk. For 5 gallons .3 teaspoon, for 2 gallons .12, just use 1/8 tsp.

Choozit MD89 LYO 125 DCU: 125 x 10 = 1250 liters / 3.75 = 334 gallons of milk
I only weighed this pack as it wasn't open yet, I tared the package of another I had emptied so the weight should be just the culture and all the powder is uniform and should be the same weight. So I'll guesstimate the dose based on the weight of the other packages. It weighed .96 oz. So a teaspoon weighs .081, which means this package has about 12 teaspoons in it. So .036 of a teaspoon with ripen 1 gallon of milk, for 5 gallons a little over 1/8 tsp., for 2 gallons 1/16 tsp.

All this is about what I used on my last batches. For the 2 gallon cheddar I used 1/4 tsp, which was too much according to this chart. For the 5 gallon Parmesan I used 1/8 tsp of TA61 and 1/8 tsp. of LH100 which was too much as well. But the website I took the original directions from are very general as I don't think the proprietor thinks it makes very much difference at these small levels, and it may not, but why waste and I want to be as accurate as possible and part of that is not questioning what I did later down the road.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2008, 07:05:01 AM »
Thanks, numbers look good!

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2008, 01:05:54 PM »
OK, I just got another email from Danlac about the packet weights and as I thought each pack will weight different based on the activity of that particular batch. I kind of thought so when there was no information on the packet itself.

So all I just said above is probably a good starting point. I guess what you can take away is: 1 Dose is used to acidify 10 liters of milk. So if the pack is a 125 Doses x 10 liters = 1250 / 3.75 (liters in a gallon) = 334 gallons. So if your new pack weighs 1 oz. you know that .003 of an oz. by weight is used to acidify 1 gallon of milk. So a small scale would be worth getting, I recommend getting it now before you need just in case, even if you're going to measure by tsp. because trust me you'll never know when you'll need it. I'm going to buy mine off ebay for cheap, because in stores they start at $30-$50. Anyway, from that we know that 1 teaspoon weighs .081. So .015 / .081 = .185 about 3/16 of a teaspoon. Pretty easy...lol.

Anyway at least we have a better understanding. I hate the websites that give generalities.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2008, 03:49:53 PM »
Thanks for update, good idea on scale, I just checked Amazon USA and good reviews on "American Weigh" brand ones. Let me know what you order please and I'll do same.


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Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2008, 04:18:33 PM »
I haven't gone to ebay yet but for tha price I'd rather buy from Amazon so it can be returned if it's a piece of junk.

As I said before if you're the kind of hobby person that likes to make food type items it is a huge bonus to have an accurate small scale. Over the years I really could have used one but always assumed, becuase in retail, they are $80.

I always want to have an item when I need it, not have to go get because I need it.

Good find cheese head.

P.S. Holy Cow Milk Batman, there is one for $15 that goes to .01. I think I might get that one. I'll let you know after reading the reviews in a minute.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2008, 04:26:13 PM »
Just ordered this one. Great value, not a single bad review, 10 year warranty and can measure down to .01 gram.
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2008, 05:27:59 PM »
Sorry which one?

Offline Cartierusm

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2008, 08:05:58 PM »
Opps, I thought I had posted the link

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012LOQUQ
Life is like a box of chocolates sometimes too much rennet makes you kill people.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: DVI Starter Cultures - Amounts
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2008, 01:48:36 PM »
Thanks, just ordered same.